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Government shutdown
Republicans prove once again they can’t govern.
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449 Replies
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Reporting now that the sticking point is Trumps Wall.
Trump wants to announce the Wall at the State of the Union talk. Dems dont want to give him a win.
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they could pass something like CHIP without trying to tack it to some other unpopular legislation. It’s funny they care so much about children that they rally for life, yet don’t care about children enough to bring a clean CHIP bill.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
they could pass something like CHIP without trying to tack it to some other unpopular legislation. It’s funny they care so much about children that they rally for life, yet don’t care about children enough to bring a clean CHIP bill.
Yep. Dems want CHIP funded as a stand alone.
Paul Ryan thought a few years of CHIP tied to a CR would be good enough for Dems …. but no-
he has a 100,000 shin dig that he has to go–now does he leave rich people holding the bag or does he get on that plane to Florida
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Yeah—Baby –Shut It Down
Shut it Down–all on GOP who could vote United to give Tax deductions to the Rich-that GOP vote for rich/shut down government on Average Americans[b][/b][i][/i][u][/u][strike][/strike]-
Are we in government no funded mode? Pretty much feels like the same.
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Did U see the infantile rant by Team Trump
soooooooo I guess his little party is canceled
and this happened on the same day Bush Layer Richard Painter saying we have a Pervert in the WH–he was not happy with the Stormy Daniels issueQuote from DICOM_Dan
Are we in government no funded mode? Pretty much feels like the same.
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Awwwwfukit. I’m gonna have a toot on my bottle of nectre d’or before I kill my fireplace. I had to work with the VA today and I’m glad that’s over
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Most people don’t notice a government shut down .. unless they do.
Only way it would effect me is if it is protracted and I can’t get my expiring passport renewed before it is expired.-
Ask yourselves why Chuckie Schumer and friends put the wants of the illegals ahead of the needs of their nation.
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Quote from DoctorDalai
Ask yourselves why Chuckie Schumer and friends put the wants of the illegals ahead of the needs of their nation.
What are your “needs of the nation” that absolutely cannot tolerate any favorable solutions for DACA and other immigrants? We’re aren’t just talking about illegal immigrants anymore, the Republicans have moved the goalposts to now include even legal immigrants & keeping out immigrants from “sh1thole countries” everywhere in the world which seems to translate to non-Northern Europeans.
And besides, let’s point the truth, Republicans own all 3 branches of government & yet can’t come up with a funding agreement for the nation? We all knew this day was coming so it is not an emergency surprise. Next will be a self-created national debt crisis by Republicans who can’t offer a sliver of anything acceptable to Democrats and neither can get their own people in line to support. So it’s Democrat’s fault because Republicans can’t find solutions or engage in real bi-partisanship?
No, this is Republicans making their own noose for themselves.
Republicans can’t govern. They do not represent America, the country, they represent only their base. That is not the nation.
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Quote from dergon
Reporting now that the sticking point is Trumps Wall.
Trump wants to announce the Wall at the State of the Union talk. Dems dont want to give him a win.
Why would anyone vote against the wall ? Granted, it will only slow down illlegal immigration, not stop it alltogether, but there is no reason not to build it. Unless of course you are in favor of illegal immigration.
It is nice that by forcing the shutdown over the wall issue, the Democrats have made clear whose side they are on. They didn’t shut down the government to protect Obamacare or fund an infrastructure program. They shut it down to favor illegal immigration.-
If you want to know who is winning politically on this watch how it polls with independents.
You have provbably around 60% of the country that are hard partisans… 30% on each side that will blame the opposite party regardless of the facts.
It’s the middle and soft affiliates that tell the tale.
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Quote from dergon
If you want to know who is winning politically on this watch how it polls with independents.
You have provbably around 60% of the country that are hard partisans… 30% on each side that will blame the opposite party regardless of the facts.
It’s the middle and soft affiliates that tell the tale.
The polls that told us that Trump could never win ? Those polls ?
There is one poll worth watching, and that one is on Nov 6th. We’ll see whether being the pro-illegal-immigration party works out well for the Democrats.
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The wall wont slow anything down
Its a fng money pit and a symbol that wont work
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Quote from kpack123
The wall wont slow anything down
Its a fng money pit and a symbol that wont work
In FY 2017, the border patrol apprehended 303,916 invaders between border crossing points. During the obama years those numbers were in 400k+ range. There is an unknown number on top of that who manage to get through. It is entirely disingenuous to claim that an extended physical barrier backed with robust enforcement wont reduce that number considerably. Yes, there are mountaneous areas that won’t need a physical barrier, but that doesn’t mean you can build a barrier in the areas where most of the illegal crossings happen.
Sure, there are still going to be folks who abuse the various visa and visa-free travel programs. But at least CBP knows who they are and has biometric information that allows their apprehension if they have police contact stateside. We don’t have that for those who just hike through the desert.
A wall is no more of money pit than a high speed rail from Fresno to Stockton. Now if we had universal e-verify and a crack-down on contract labor in agriculture and construction, we probably wouldn’t need a wall.-
If we just upped internal enforcement and fined [i]employers[/i] we’d obviate the need for the wall.
Problem is that the GOP base wants a sign on the Mexican border that reads [b]Keep Out[/b] while the Chamber of Congress is hanging a [b]Help Wanted[/b] sign.-
Quote from dergon
If we just upped internal enforcement and fined [i]employers[/i] we’d obviate the need for the wall.
But democrats dont want internal enforcement. Just look at the cries and lamentation earlier this week when ICE removed the gentleman from Michigan. He had violated his voluntary departure in 2008 and had final orders of removal since 2009 and was still here. He is not a ‘dreamer’ or any of the other special categories. He was just someone who had come here under circumvention of the established process. Ironically, had he taken his voluntary departure in 2008, he would be eligible to return as a full-fledged permanent resident on an immigrant visa later this year. His wife is a citizen, he would have been an ‘immediate relative’ and could have gone through the process from mexico. But no, he chose to violate his voluntary departure, have several more children in the US and now its a great calamity when ICE finally told him to pack his bags.
Net of course its a loss to deport an otherwise law abiding and by all I can tell hard working individual. If there was a way to keep him and to deport some of the lazy sack US citizens who live on the dole and fake disability claims instead it would be much better. Unfortunately there is no country that would take them.-
This is a big waste of money
I believe it will happen
But nothing will change
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Trump’s Wall. He could learn a lot from Nikita Khrushchev and the Russians who built the Iron Curtain. Or North Korea
Yes fw, you are correct. building a wall with armed enforcement can prevent movement across the wall and border as the Russians taught us only too well. Authoritarian regimes have all the answers, all it takes is walls and police and bullets.
Welcome to the new America.
Lockdown and load!
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538: [url=https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-government-shutdown-effect-big-in-the-short-term-small-after-that/]The best bet is that the long term political effects of a government shutdown will be minimal[/url]
Indeed, prior shutdowns havent had long-term electoral implications. Republicans recovered on the generic ballot by February 1996, just a month after the final shutdown of that period ended. And in the elections later that year, they held onto their majorities in both the House and Senate. Clinton, meanwhile, [link=http://news.gallup.com/poll/164714/history-suggests-shutdown-stakes-may-not-high.aspx]recovered his lost support[/link] by March 1996. He would go on to easily win reelection later in 1996.
The 2013 shutdown tells the same story. Despite losing the blame game, Republicans jumped to a lead on the generic ballot by late November 2013 their first of the year. In the [link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_elections,_2014]2014 midterms[/link], they expanded their majority in the House and won back the Senate. Meanwhile, Obama [link=http://news.gallup.com/poll/166727/obama-job-approval-declined-steadily-throughout-2013.aspx]continued a long-term decline[/link] in his approval ratings in the months following the 2013 shutdown, but recovered to his pre-shutdown approval level [link=http://news.gallup.com/poll/116479/barack-obama-presidential-job-approval.aspx]by April 2014[/link].
Obviously, were dealing with a very small sample size in terms of historical examples. We dont have a ton of polling with which to examine the political effects of [link=https://www.axios.com/government-shutdown-history-dfa502dd-37d3-4e71-b5a7-cee5b2d68a5e.html]prior shutdowns[/link]. So, perhaps this shutdown will prove different. Americans list dissatisfaction with government as [link=http://news.gallup.com/poll/1675/most-important-problem.aspx]the most important problem[/link] facing the country. In such an environment, the government shutdown could, for example, be held up by Democrats during the midterm campaign as the ultimate demonstration of the inability of Republicans to [link=https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-support-daca-but-oppose-border-wall-cbs-news-poll/]get things done on an issue[/link] (DACA) that most Americans support.-
Quote from dergon
538: [url=https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-government-shutdown-effect-big-in-the-short-term-small-after-that/]The best bet is that the long term political effects of a government shutdown will be minimal[/url]
Did we ever have a shutdown engineered to benefit illegal aliens ?
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Democrats’ holding of DACA – a program for [i][u][b]ILLEGAL ALIENS[/b][/u][/i] no matter how it’s sliced – over the country’s head at the price of government shutdown is treason. Prioritization of non-citizens over citizens. Pure. And. Simple.
Countries used to know what to do with traitors.-
Quote from Jan the Third
Democrats’ holding of DACA – a program for [i][u][b]ILLEGAL ALIENS[/b][/u][/i] no matter how it’s sliced – over the country’s head at the price of government shutdown is treason. Prioritization of non-citizens over citizens. Pure. And. Simple.
Countries used to know what to do with traitors.
Post is good… but it needs more bolding, all caps, and batsh*t crazy hyperbole.-
Authors of children’s books use large text for a reason.
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Trump is basically a FLOP
he said he would sign anything-clean DACA on camera–he would take the heat but we all know the words are empty and just for show
The most unqualified person to ever take the office–up one day /down the other–Bipolar –never enable Axis 1-
Apparently Schumer discussed a serious offer of a Democrats support for building a wall in exchange for a DACA support plan.
Trump rejected the offer. No one quite knows what Trump will accept as the great deal maker shape-shifts offers before our eyes.
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Your side is now quite literally on record as prioritizing the interests of illegals above the functioning of national government and the salaries of government workers.
The day of reckoning for that will come. Best of luck.-
No-U and Your side are representations of people who cannot govern and can only do one thing give rich people more
DT–looked like a great big flop on Friday –a weak leader who could not even attend his own paid for Party–keep the Resistance up–right up to his state of the union-let him look like a great big flop–only a loser would dig the hole deeper by releasing a willie Horton like crap after the Govt was shut down on his watchQuote from Jan the Third
Your side is now quite literally on record as prioritizing the interests of illegals above the functioning of national government and the salaries of government workers.
The day of reckoning for that will come. Best of luck.
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Quote from Jan the Third
Your side is now quite literally on record as prioritizing the interests of illegals above the functioning of national government and the salaries of government workers.
The day of reckoning for that will come. Best of luck.
You own government, all 3 branches and can’t come up with a plan. So how is that Democrats’ fault if you can’t govern?
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[b][link=http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/369967-eric-trump-the-government-shutdown-is-good-for-us-politically]http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/369967-eric-trump-the-government-shutdown-is-good-for-us-politically[/link][/b]
Eric Trump: The shutdown is good for us politically.
Well said, Eric. 🙂
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Quote from dergon
[b][link=http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/369967-eric-trump-the-government-shutdown-is-good-for-us-politically]http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/369967-eric-trump-the-government-shutdown-is-good-for-us-politically[/link][/b]
Eric Trump: The shutdown is good for us politically.
Well said, Eric. 🙂
It’s sad that people as intelligent as those here don’t see the truth in this. The Democrats have in the past few weeks declared VERY LOUDLY that they are NOT the party of the common man they falsely pretend to be. They voted against a tax bill that will help the economy, with far more benefits to the middle class than to the rich (because of the state sales tax thing, I’ll get minimal benefit, for example). AND, they now shut down the government to promote ILLEGAL aliens over the United States citizens they are [i]supposed[/i] to represent.
You should pray for short memories come November, but many voters WILL remember the back-to-back betrayals of Americans by the Democrats.-
Wait Dalai
This is not Fox News where you can repeat a lie over and over until you believe it
How exactly is this tax plan going to the middle class far more than the wealthy
Please expand on this bull sheet whimsical claim of yours
WOW!!!! Either you are fooling yourself or you dont have an ounce of financial savvy in your brain
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You won’t believe me anyway, so why bother? But I’ll try:
[link=https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-the-gop-tax-bill-will-impact-middle-class-and-wealthy-taxpayers-2017-11-03]https://www.marketwatch.c…y-taxpayers-2017-11-03[/link]
[blockquote] [b]Analysis:[/b] These rate brackets would benefit most taxpayers (probably the vast majority), including the rich. For instance, folks with modest incomes who are currently in the 10% and 15% brackets would be in the new 12% bracket and probably better off. Many middle-income folks who are currently in the 28% and 33% marginal brackets would be in the new 25% bracket and definitely better off. However, some upper-middle-income folks who are currently in the 33% marginal bracket would find themselves in the 35% bracket under the GOP bill.
Anyone who is currently in the 39.6% bracket would be better off, because the threshold for the 39.6% bracket would be higher (much higher for married joint-filers and those who used married filing separate status). However, the 12% rate would be phased out for joint-filers with taxable income above $1.2 million and for others with taxable income above $1 million. So the maximum effective marginal rate for these folks would be higher than the advertised 39.6%.
[/blockquote]
[blockquote] [b]Analysis:[/b] Many individuals who currently itemize deductions will be claiming the standard deduction in future years if the GOP bill becomes law especially those who would be affected by proposed cutbacks in itemized deductions (see below). Depending on the amount of your itemized write-offs under current law and the number of personal and dependent deductions that you claim under current law, you could gain a net benefit from these two changes. Or not.
For instance, if you are a married joint-filer with $15,000 of itemized deductions and four personal and dependent exemptions (amounting to $16,600 for 2018 under the current rules), the GOP bill would increase your taxable income by $7,200. Depending on your income level, that difference combined with the new rate brackets and other proposed changes might still reduce your tax bill compared with what it would be under current law. But that depends on your exact situation.
[/blockquote]
[blockquote] [b]Analysis:[/b] The proposed changes would significantly increase the child tax credit and make it available to many more middle-income households. Those changes, along with the new $300 family tax credits, would for many households wholly or partially offset the elimination of dependent exemption deductions for children.
[/blockquote]
[blockquote] [b]Analysis:[/b] These changes are the opposite of tax cuts for the rich and maybe a good reason to sell a highly appreciated home this year while the current more-favorable rules are still in effect.
[/blockquote]
So maybe look at some source other than Communist News Network before you have a melt-down.
And your silence about the fact that your Democrats put sucking up to ILLEGAL aliens above the needs of the United States, the nation they supposedly represent, is deafening. -
Quote from kpack123
Wait Dalai
This is not Fox News where you can repeat a lie over and over until you believe it
How exactly is this tax plan going to the middle class far more than the wealthy
Please expand on this bull sheet whimsical claim of yours
WOW!!!! Either you are fooling yourself or you dont have an ounce of financial savvy in your brain
This from the guy that said that the recession is coming (it isn’t, another multipage nothing burger from your Mao friends of Off topic Pol at AM), that Trump is messing up the stock market (he can’t even read a chart from 2016 until now), and that told us to buy AAPL, which within 48 hours of that statement CRASHED.
Yes, can’t even tell the truth about anything, can’t make a prediction, and then talks about others “savviness”? Unreal. -
When exactly did it Apple crash?????
Apple is up 5 bucks since I made the prediction that it was a better buy than Microsoft
And I dont recall predicting a recession…. thats not important too me but I do recall predicting the market would fall about 20% off it highs and I was right there too
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Trump fires the illegal immigrants working for him at his golf course for the past 12 years.
Show you how insidious these illegal people are in that it took Trump & his management 12 years to discover they hired illegal immigrants!
Guess they did not use E-Verify! -
Quote from Frumious
Trump fires the illegal immigrants working for him at his golf course for the past 12 years.
Show you how insidious these illegal people are in that it took Trump & his management 12 years to discover they hired illegal immigrants!
Guess they did not use E-Verify!
I was talking to a guy I golf with who owns about 30 landscaping trucks. He was specifically talking about visa workers but he said if these people didn’t come here landscaping jobs and resorts etc… would go out of business. For him there’s no people that are here doing the work and will do it well & take pride in the work.
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Yep
I wonder if he is trump voter though?
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Talks at an impasse now. GOP wants bigger the $$ for wall compared to what congress originally passed. Dems now want to tie an increase (nowhere near the level Trump wants) in funding to limiting the number of ICE detention beds.
Trump will hold a rally tonight at the border. We’ll see which way he goes… more toward compromise or back to “build that wall!”
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[link=https://www.axios.com/newsletters/axios-sneak-peek-c1216ffb-5529-46db-94ac-f3017e693b8c.html]Jonathan Swan[/link]: If the talks are dead, Trump is so dug in he has only two options: shut down the government again or use his emergency powers to get the money.
Both options are horrible. The first would herald a return to chaos, depleted government services and federal workers being deprived of pay. The second would mean an instant court fight and a backlash from Congress.
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Eric ? Thats the retarded one, right ?
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I don’t think it’s politically smart to openly comment that you think the shutdown is good politically.
It all adds in to public perception. The side that is more viewed as “wanting” it is more likely to be blamed.
Don Jr should give Eric his fidget spinner and tell him to be quiet for a few days. -
Dalai
Again this is not Fox News where you can recite bull sheet talking points that are fabricated yes fabricated
Basically if you understand what this package does it reduces the corporate rates permanently and it raises the estate tax exemption and AMT permanently while it eliminates a lot of middle class tax breaks
Now you can argue cutting corporate taxes benefit the middle class but the benefit is far tilted towards the wealthy that is not even arguable
Now the AMT and the estate tax breaks are strictly for the wealthy
Thats a fact
The child credit is definitely a tax break for the middle class but it is really not much
And the raising of the personal exemption favors kid just a math trick to F over certain states
That being said the tax rates are temporary and actually raises taxes on the middle class in 5 years
So please dalai take your ignorant talking points and spew them to some dumbarse who cant think
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And a second point Dalai
Did you read what you just posted or did you just post something to post something
Your article that you cut and pasted doesnt even support what you claim
Surprised what a political hack you have become
Can you balance a checkbook
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Quote from kpack123
And a second point Dalai
Did you read what you just posted or did you just post something to post something
Your article that you cut and pasted doesnt even support what you claim
Surprised what a political hack you have become
Can you balance a checkbook
No, I use Quicken for that. I am satisfied with what I posted. And with my 401K. And with my portfolio. And as a “rich” person, I wish I was getting the windfall Communist News Network has told you I’m getting at the expense of the middle class.
Going Goebbels on me and repeatedly telling me your own incorrect version of things, whilst calling me names, doesn’t change anything. YOU MIGHT JUST BE WRONG for once. Who’s the “hack” here? Your hatred for Trump and anything associated, including those people in flyover country you’ve outgrown, has robbed you of most of the rationality you had when we were fighting against self-referral together.
And STILL not a word from you about the clear preference of the Dems for ILLEGAL aliens over the American citizens they are supposed to be representing. -
Again
Your post doesnt support your talking point
Did you even read it?
Or are you just that financially clueless?
Its one or the other
To your other point
I dont know any illegals
I do not perceive them as a threat to me
But if you want to solve the problem then advocate for putting the real lawbreakers in jail….,. The individuals who hire the illegals
Put them in jail and everyone goes back home
No need spending 18 billion on a wall
Just enforce the current laws
But that wont show up in your Fox News talking point memo
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Its really easy to blame democrats and build a multi billion dollar wall
But its too hard to enforce current laws and put the people in jail who hire the illegals
Just too hard
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Quote from kpack123
Its really easy to blame democrats and build a multi billion dollar wall
But its too hard to enforce current laws and put the people in jail who hire the illegals
Just too hard
Its easy to blame the Democrats as it is simply their fault.
There are already laws that punish employers but they are written with many loopholes that allow employers to feign ignorance if they get caught. At the same time the zealots in the DOJ civil rights division under Obama prosecuted employers for trying to comply with immigration law.
A comprehensive immigration reform would be able to fulfill the so far unkept promises of the IRCA. Universal e-verify and a crackdown on contract labor would be a start. But no, e-verify is apparently racist because folks with common Latino names would have to make sure that the spelling on their social security card matches the spelling on their drivers license. These things are being sabotaged by the pro-illegal lobby, and since Friday night we know who they are.
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Quote from fw
Its easy to blame the Democrats as it is simply their fault.
There are already laws that punish employers but they are written with many loopholes that allow employers to feign ignorance if they get caught. At the same time the zealots in the DOJ civil rights division under Obama prosecuted employers for trying to comply with immigration law.
A comprehensive immigration reform would be able to fulfill the so far unkept promises of the IRCA. Universal e-verify and a crackdown on contract labor would be a start. But no, e-verify is apparently racist because folks with common Latino names would have to make sure that the spelling on their social security card matches the spelling on their drivers license. These things are being sabotaged by the pro-illegal lobby, and since Friday night we know who they are.
Absolutely dead wrong. All Republicans have to do is admit that this country is and was built on immigrants and immigration – we have no intention to all leave to return to our forebears’ countries & give all the land back to Native Americans right?
As for comprehensive immigration reform, Republicans have been in control of congress and the Presidency before so why no effort? Bush actually did want comprehensive immigration reform & tried to pass but Republicans defeated the bill then. Now they are in control so why not pass comprehensive immigration? Because they can’t decide themselves, they can’t get 50 votes from their own members.
And what’s so necessary about sending DACA children back to their birth countries? They are criminals? -
Quote from Frumious
Absolutely dead wrong. All Republicans have to do is admit that this country is and was built on immigrants and immigration – we have no intention to all leave to return to our forebears’ countries & give all the land back to Native Americans right?
I’ve seen this facile talking point spouted again and again, and it’s as wrong this time as it was the last 56,777,547 times.
The country was [b]founded [/b]by [i]settlers[/i]. One settles the land. One immigrates to a country. One cannot immigrate to a land where there is no country, and the American Indians had not created a country when the Europeans arrived here; in fact, they were totally uninterested in doing so, as they were pretty busy warring with each other. -
Here was my take about the whole thing:
Neither side had any leverage. But the GOP simply didn’t want to play the game, while Democrats did.
I think Dems fooled themselves into believing they had enough leverage to get something. I don’t know why they believed that, but I think they did.
It was stupid.That said, none of this will matter by the time of the election. All just a useless sideshow.
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No –they have set Mitch up–he has to bring the issue to be voted on and if he doesn’t then he has broken the trust and the fallout belongs to him-he is a liar and has broken the trust of the senate
Quote from MISTRAD
Here was my take about the whole thing:
Neither side had any leverage. But the GOP simply didn’t want to play the game, while Democrats did.
I think Dems fooled themselves into believing they had enough leverage to get something. I don’t know why they believed that, but I think they did.
It was stupid.
That said, none of this will matter by the time of the election. All just a useless sideshow.
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Arguing tactics and strategy over rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. This single battle doesn’t matter so much as the war. All Schumer did was delay the battle for a few short weeks.
What matters is do we come up with sensible immigration policy or not. Do we want to keep out the brown people as the Republicans seem to want or not. Do we want to keep a Republic Democracy or increase the Executive to Authoritarian powers as Republicans seem to want everytime there is a Republican in the Presidency (recall the Unitary Executive of George Bush as argued by Chaney & his ilk, that the President is above the law, as we have heard today about Trump). Do we open permanent residency to Dreamers & DACA who have lived here since childhood & don’t know their birth countries, as if they have nothing to contribute because they are brown and “illegal” (“the children have made their choice” I think is a quote from some against DACA and Dreamers).
Do we pretend America is not built on assimilating immigrants?
The Know Nothing Party controls Congress and the Presidency but it doesn’t mean forever.
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Quote from MISTRAD
Here was my take about the whole thing:
Neither side had any leverage. But the GOP simply didn’t want to play the game, while Democrats did.
I think Dems fooled themselves into believing they had enough leverage to get something. I don’t know why they believed that, but I think they did.
It was stupid.
That said, none of this will matter by the time of the election. All just a useless sideshow.
[link=https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-government-shutdown-effect-big-in-the-short-term-small-after-that/]https://fivethirtyeight.c…term-small-after-that/[/link]
538 agrees with you.
{P}rior shutdowns havent had long-term electoral implications.
Obviously, were dealing with a very small sample size in terms of historical examples. We dont have a ton of polling with which to examine the political effects of [link=https://www.axios.com/government-shutdown-history-dfa502dd-37d3-4e71-b5a7-cee5b2d68a5e.html]prior shutdowns[/link]. So, perhaps this shutdown will prove different. Americans list dissatisfaction with government as [link=http://news.gallup.com/poll/1675/most-important-problem.aspx]the most important problem[/link] facing the country. In such an environment, the government shutdown could, for example, be held up by Democrats during the midterm campaign as the ultimate demonstration of the inability of Republicans to [link=https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-support-daca-but-oppose-border-wall-cbs-news-poll/]get things done on an issue[/link] (DACA) that most Americans support.
But your safest bet right now at least until we get more polling as this story unfolds (or ends) is that the long-term electoral effects of the shutdown will be minimal. -
[b]Paul Ryan to bring Senate spending bill to the House floor prompting speculation his time as Speaker is ending [/b]
[link=https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2018/02/08/government-shutdown-deadline-is-tonight-heres-what-today-looks-like-bade-and-bresnahan-on-duncan-hunter-tracking-who-knew-what-when-about-rob-porter-245484]Playbook[/link]:
When Paul Ryan was about to take the speakership from John Boehner, he railed against a package just like this. He took some heat yesterday in a closed Republican meeting from lawmakers who felt cut out by the process by which this bill was put together. Hes now putting this bill on the floor, and urging Republicans to vote yes. Theres a lot of chatter that a man seeking another term as speaker would never put this bill on the floor. At the moment, its just that chatter. Ryan has said hell decide on his re-election in the spring after a conversation with his wife.
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Quote from Frumious
You own government, all 3 branches and can’t come up with a plan. So how is that Democrats’ fault if you can’t govern?
The shutdown is the result of the Democrats trying to push their pet project to promote illegal immigration. Had they not used the CR to force their pro-illegal agenda, there would be no shutdown.
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Quote from fw
Quote from Frumious
You own government, all 3 branches and can’t come up with a plan. So how is that Democrats’ fault if you can’t govern?
The shutdown is the result of the Democrats trying to push their pet project to promote illegal immigration. Had they not used the CR to force their pro-illegal agenda, there would be no shutdown.
Funny considering Democrats learned many tactics form Republicans. Why must the minority surrender to majority wishes? When have Republicans done that when they were minority?
I think the American form of government depends on compromise and bipartisanship, something Republicans have rejected entirely since 2009. Their base demands non-compromise, that makes it all Republican responsibility. If you lock out Democrats on everything, it’s up to Republicans to govern. But Republicans can’t govern & still refuse to extend a hand across the aisle.
Take responsibility. This is the government you want & now you’ve got it. Democrats should not capitulate just because you are having a hissy fit over not getting your way 100%. -
Quote from fw
Quote from Frumious
You own government, all 3 branches and can’t come up with a plan. So how is that Democrats’ fault if you can’t govern?
The shutdown is the result of the Democrats trying to push their pet project to promote illegal immigration. Had they not used the CR to force their pro-illegal agenda, there would be no shutdown.
Well. There is a nice summation of both sides talking points.
let the blame game spin begin.
I await the polling. (Currently have pols going both ways. 20 point margin say Republicans will be blamed but also with a solid majority saying DACA isn’t worth a shutdown)
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Quote from dergon
Quote from fw
Quote from Frumious
You own government, all 3 branches and can’t come up with a plan. So how is that Democrats’ fault if you can’t govern?
The shutdown is the result of the Democrats trying to push their pet project to promote illegal immigration. Had they not used the CR to force their pro-illegal agenda, there would be no shutdown.
Well. There is a nice summation of both sides talking points.
let the blame game spin begin.
I await the polling. (Currently have pols going both ways. 20 point margin say Republicans will be blamed but also with a solid majority saying DACA isn’t worth a shutdown)
watched a couple of the news hours this morning. It’s like a scarecrow pointing both directions. Dems call it the Trump shutdown and GOP calls it the Schumer shutdown.
I kind of see the point in having the force the issue of a budget but this is more political hackery on both parties.-
Immigration is a core issue for both parties, just opposite sides. Republicans have expanded the discussion from not just illegals with a pure black and white approach but now are concerned about legals and a concern about those from “sh1thole countries,” a dog whistle for racial filters.
It isn’t games or hackery. At some point America has to decide on who we are with immigration.
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[url=https://politicalwire.com/2018/01/21/winning-shut-fight/]Winning in November will tell who won the shut down fight[/url]]
For Republicans, the key to victory is the handful of Democratic senators running for re-election in states that President Trump won overwhelmingly in 2016. If those senators feel their re-election bids are threatened by a shutdown on behalf of illegal immigrants, they may ultimately cave and vote for another short term funding bill. If Republicans can get to 60 votes in the Senate, that would be a clear, if temporary, victory.
For Democrats, the key is that the vast majority of Americans support their position on the Dreamers. With protections for Dreamers expiring on March 5, ,ost Democrats feel a deal is inevitable and even if they must give Republicans modest funding for a border wall in return, it will be seen as a clear win for Democrats.
President Trump has forced his party into an impossible position. As he takes a harder line on immigration, he makes a deal to open the government next to impossible to reach. Its tough to see how he can spin an amnesty deal for Dreamers into a win for his base. Even if he ultimately gets some funding for a border wall, the easy question voters can ask is, Why isnt Mexico paying for it?
Worse for Republicans is that even if they win this round, the problem comes right back in three weeks. If the government shuts down again, it will again prove to Americans the GOP is incapable of governing.
Thats why Democrats are willing to have this fight.
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Winning in November is the only way to really judge this shutdown fight.-
The ILLEGALS that the Democrats are seeking to protect in this fight are, eg, police officers, paramedics, and military personnel who have lived in this country since toddlerhood, with parents who have paid taxes for decades, are less likely to be criminal than their American born cohort, more likely to be educated, and more entrepreneurial.
Immigration across the southern border is net zero. From the Cato Institute- Obama enforced immigration laws far more thoroughly than any previous administration. There isnt a Democrat anywhere that doesnt espouse and support effective border security, and legislation under a he prior three administrations demonstrates it.
Positing that Democrats are more interested in taking care of ILLEGALS is disingenuous at best, and crass, or misinformed, or deliberately obfuscating .
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Depending on the poll 80-90% of the public supports a straightforward legislative fix for DACA, House and Senate leadership wants it, depending on the day (or hour) the president wants it, but they wont do it. Its the Dems fault.
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Quote from uncleduke
Depending on the poll 80-90% of the public supports a straightforward legislative fix for DACA, House and Senate leadership wants it, depending on the day (or hour) the president wants it, but they wont do it. Its the Dems fault.
I am not following the shutdown closely but don’t most Repubs also support a DACA fix (given the vast public support)? I have a hard time believing that these young people will be deported etc, the optics would be pretty bad…-
I have the answer, although I’m not sure either side would go with it. Here it is…FIVE years in the military or equivalent public service gets you to the front of the line. Very simple, and a win-win.
One must ask at this point…why haven’t the “Dreamers” (amazing how ILLEGAL immigrants are “dreamers” and American citizen Trump voters are “deplorables” but there you are) applied for proper citizenship? The usual answer is that they are afraid of ICE…because they come from ILLEGAL immigration origins.
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Quote from uncleduke
Depending on the poll 80-90% of the public supports a straightforward legislative fix for DACA, House and Senate leadership wants it, depending on the day (or hour) the president wants it, but they wont do it. Its the Dems fault.
They want a “fix”, yes – but for many of us, that fix is a large red stamp.
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[url=http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/370006-graham-stephen-miller-makes-immigration-deal-impossible]Graham blames Stephen Miller for the impasse on immigration deal[/url]
GOP Sen. [link=http://thehill.com/people/lindsey-graham]Lindsey Graham[/link] (S.C.) warned on Sunday that the White House staff is undercutting [link=http://thehill.com/people/donald-trump]President Trump[/link] and Congress’s ability to get a deal on immigration.
“Every time we have a proposal it is only yanked back by staff members. As long as Stephen Miller is in charge of negotiating immigration, we’re going nowhere,” Graham told reporters as he headed into a closed-door negotiation with a bipartisan group of senators.
He added that “the White House staff, I think, is making it very difficult.”
[/QUOTE]
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Quote from Jan the Third
Quote from uncleduke
Depending on the poll 80-90% of the public supports a straightforward legislative fix for DACA, House and Senate leadership wants it, depending on the day (or hour) the president wants it, but they wont do it. Its the Dems fault.
They want a “fix”, yes – but for many of us, that fix is a large red stamp.
The “us” you refer to is a small minority of the American public
[img]http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2018/01/19133722/FT_18.01.19_viewsImmigration_1.png[/img]
Pew (1/19/18): [url=http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/19/public-backs-legal-status-for-immigrants-brought-to-u-s-illegally-as-children-but-not-a-bigger-border-wall/]74% back legal status for immigrant brought to us illegally as children[/url]
The American public has clear-cut opinions on both issues at the center of the current debate on immigration policy. A large majority (74%) favors granting permanent legal status to immigrants brought to the U.S. illegally when they were children, but 60% oppose a proposal to substantially expand the wall along the U.S. border with Mexico a longtime goal of President Donald Trump.
When the two policies are taken together, 54% of Americans both [i]favor[/i] granting permanent legal status to immigrants who came to the U.S. illegally as children and[i]oppose[/i] greatly expanding the wall along the U.S.-Mexico border, according to a new Pew Research Center survey conducted Jan. 10-15.
There are substantial partisan differences in opinions about both policies: About nine-in-ten (92%) Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents say immigrants brought to the U.S. illegally as children should be granted permanent legal status. Republicans and Republican leaners favor this approach as well, though by a much more modest margin: 50% support this, while 40% are opposed.-
I’m reading deployed troops can’t watch the games because the armed services network is shutdown. WTF. Congress sucks
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
I’m reading deployed troops can’t watch the games because the armed services network is shutdown. WTF. Congress sucks
[link=https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2018-nfl-playoffs-nfl-gets-armed-forces-network-turned-on-despite-government-shutdown/]https://www.cbssports.com…e-government-shutdown/[/link]
NFL gets Armed Forces Network turned on despite government shutdown[/h1]
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Quote from Politically-influenced poll
ASK ALL: Q.50 As you may know, there is a proposal to substantially expand the wall along the U.S. border with Mexico. In general, do you favor or oppose this proposal? Jan 10-15 2018
37 Favor
60 Oppose
3 Dont know/Refused (VOL.)
Uh, yeah. Count this among the polls that are so ridiculous as to be dismissed straight away. 60% oppose building or even [i]enlarging [/i]the wall? Not. A. Chance. Every single Independent (and almost every Democrat) to whom I speak endorses wall construction.
This reminds me of the polls that were devised to dispirit Trump voters before the 2016 election.-
[b]Bipartisan group of senators say they are close to a deal:[/b]
A bipartisan group of roughly 20 senators are signaling they are nearing an agreement to reopen the government, [link=http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/370022-senate-group-signals-they-are-near-a-deal-on-shutdown]The Hill[/link] reports.
The bipartisan group isnt crafting separate legislation. Senators say the bulk of their talks were about how to get 60 votes for the bill to fund the government through Feb. 8 paired with a commitment that will satisfy Democrats on bringing up an immigration bill.
Senators predicted that Schumer and McConnell, who did not speak on Saturday, would be meeting shortly.
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So the Pew poll is wrong but Jan’s man on the street polling favors wall construction. Wonder which poll is better?
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
So the Pew poll is wrong but Jan’s man on the street polling favors wall construction. Wonder which poll is better?
Yep.
“Everyone I talk to feels the same way I do!”
Totally scientifically and statistically valid.
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Republicans want to keep immigration talks separate for funding talks simply because they want no immigration solution because a solution would make its base very angry. They had a bi-partisan solution already to be signed when Trump ranted about “sh1thole countries” and refused to sign the agreement.
The Republicans took their bi-partisan agreement back and now we have a government shutdown.
Just before 11 p.m., Schumer bounded down the center aisle and pulled McConnell off the floor and into a lobby behind the chamber, just the two leaders talking. About 10 minutes later they reemerged as the scrums grew larger throughout the chamber.
The central dispute, those officials said, was that Schumer and the Democrats wanted a shorter-term funding bill, to Jan. 29 or Jan. 30, trying to wrap up the deal before Trumps state-of-the-union address. McConnell refused, saying that wasnt enough time to complete all the various pieces of the legislative puzzle.
Later, senators and aides said that in the course of discussions with Schumer, McConnell had spoken by phone with House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.). Though the parties dispute what was said, Ryans call with McConnell is widely seen as a key moment that ended any chances of a deal Friday since Ryan was not going to change his position on keeping immigration talks separate from funding talks, officials said.
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We dont have a reliable partner at the White House to negotiate with, [link=https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC]@LindseyGrahamSC[/link] said as he walked into the U.S. Capitol and was told of Trumps morning tweets.
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[url=http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/370045-white-house-blasts-bipartisan-immigration-plan-ahead-of-shutdown-vote]Senate working toward a solution. WH not happy. First vote later today.[/url]
The White House on Sunday blasted a bipartisan immigration proposal ahead of a Senate vote to end the government shutdown.
White House spokesman Hogan Gidley called the plan co-authored by Sens. [link=http://thehill.com/people/lindsey-graham]Lindsey Graham[/link] (R-S.C.) and [link=http://thehill.com/people/dick-durbin]Dick Durbin[/link] (D-Ill.) a giant step in the wrong direction that is too lax on illegal immigration.
The Flake-Graham-Durbin proposal embodies every reason Americans do not trust Washington. It puts people who are in this country unlawfully ahead of our own American citizens, Gidley said in a statement to The Hill, also referring to another sponsor, Sen. [link=http://thehill.com/people/jeff-flake]Jeff Flake[/link] (R-Ariz.)
The White House is trying to discourage Republican lawmakers from signing onto the plan after the government reopens.
Senators are expected to vote Monday at noon to end debate on a bill that would fund the government through Feb. 8.
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Jan The Man–sorry but everybody I speak to says the Wall that Trump wants is unattainable and a waste of dollars as they see Israel dealing with newly built tunnels everyday
The Dems needed this–the base needed the March and the shutdown –let out the steam because everyone has had enough with this infantile Prez and his unqualified staff
Keep this up past the State of Union and I challenge the top Billionaires( Buffett/Bloomberg/Bez) to put up 1 million so that if shutdown is still present on Feb 1 they will give 1,000 to every federal worker who askQuote from Jan the Third
Quote from Politically-influenced poll
ASK ALL: Q.50 As you may know, there is a proposal to substantially expand the wall along the U.S. border with Mexico. In general, do you favor or oppose this proposal? Jan 10-15 2018
37 Favor
60 Oppose
3 Dont know/Refused (VOL.)Uh, yeah. Count this among the polls that are so ridiculous as to be dismissed straight away. 60% oppose building or even [i]enlarging [/i]the wall? Not. A. Chance. Every single Independent (and almost every Democrat) to whom I speak endorses wall construction.
This reminds me of the polls that were devised to dispirit Trump voters before the 2016 election.
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The pollsters are trying to gaslight immigration patriots into ceding on DACA. It’ll work on the weak-minded, but not on me. 😉
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uncleduke, you [i]know[/i] that isn’t the case for many of them, if not most, and the border still leaks. Your post does not fit reality.
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Quote from uncleduke
The ILLEGALS that the Democrats are seeking to protect in this fight are, eg, police officers, paramedics, and military personnel
We’ve heard these talking points mentioned. They’ve been debunked from a rational statistical standpoint. As of September, there were (reportedly) [link=https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/09/07/trump-administration-struggles-fate-900-dreamers-serving-military/640637001/]900 “DREAMers” serving in the military[/link]. The numbers don’t add up to make the “but they serve on the military!” argument viable. I haven’t seen stats on illegal alien police officers and paramedics, and I’d like to see them, but I highly doubt they’ll suggest that they’ll lend substantial support to DACA.
Quote from uncleduke
who have lived in this country since toddlerhood, with parents who have paid taxes for decades
Irrelevant. They are here illegally. Their parents are to blame for whatever ills befall them. In the meantime, they’ve lived high on the hog relative to how they’d have lived in their home countries. That’s a lot of good life we’ve subsidized for them; that gift doesn’t earn them even more to be granted for perpetuity.
Quote from uncleduke
are less likely to be criminal than their American born cohort, more likely to be educated, and more entrepreneurial.
Education statistics that have been parroted by the media appear to have been influenced by cherry-picking from more socially-active (read: obnoxious) “DREAMers”, who often have attended college.Quote from uncleduke
Immigration across the southern border is net zero. From the Cato Institute- Obama enforced immigration laws far more thoroughly than any previous administration. There isnt a Democrat anywhere that doesnt espouse and support effective border security, and legislation under a he prior three administrations demonstrates it.
Ha. Ha. Ha.
There’s a reason why Democrats are fighting the wall with tooth and nail. It’s only a partial solution, but they know that it will work to a certain extent.Quote from uncleduke
Positing that Democrats are more interested in taking care of ILLEGALS is disingenuous at best, and crass, or misinformed, or deliberately obfuscating .
Nope. It’s the truth. There is not a single good reason for DACA to be attached to the debate over government funding.
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If I had to handicap it politically based on the first day and the Sunday shows I’d give an edge to the GOP. They’re on message… and I think it’s mostly a winning one.
Dems need some good gaffes or RW nutjob rants to get back in the game
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Quote from uncleduke
The ILLEGALS that the Democrats are seeking to protect in this fight are, eg, police officers, paramedics, and military personnel who have lived in this country since toddlerhood, with parents who have paid taxes for decades, are less likely to be criminal than their American born cohort, more likely to be educated, and more entrepreneurial. [/Quote]
Propaganda. Nobody without legal authority to work should be employed as a peace officer anywhere in the US. If they are, laws were broken and background checks were falsified to make it happen.
Immigration across the southern border is net zero. From the Cato Institute- Obama enforced immigration laws far more thoroughly than any previous administration.
[/Quote]Immigration was negative during the Obama years because the construction economy sucked, not because of any great enforcement initiatives.
I do have to credit ICE under Obama in that they ramped up deportations of high priority criminal aliens. Unfortunately this was to the detriment of enforcement overall.There isnt a Democrat anywhere that doesnt espouse and support effective border security, and legislation under a he prior three administrations demonstrates it. [/Quote]
Nonsense. If the Democrats wanted border security they could have voted for it last week. The reality is they don’t.
Positing that Democrats are more interested in taking care of ILLEGALS is disingenuous at best, and crass, or misinformed, or deliberately obfuscating .
Lol. They had a chance to show whose side they are on and they made clear that they put the interests of 600k DACA kids above the interests of federal employees, military and contractors.
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Quote from DoctorDalai
One must ask at this point…why haven’t the “Dreamers” (amazing how ILLEGAL immigrants are “dreamers” and American citizen Trump voters are “deplorables” but there you are) applied for proper citizenship? The usual answer is that they are afraid of ICE…because they come from ILLEGAL immigration origins.
Your political context Dalai. Even many Republicans refer to these children as DREAMERS.
As for afraid of ICE because they are illegal? You’ve just answered your own question, thy are not eligible to apply for citizenship without Congressional permission, as in passing a law which this Congress would not do.
minnesota.cbslocal.com/2017/09/05/gq-dreamers-citizenship/
Karen from Pequot Lakes and Alan from Rockford wanted to know: Why cant the Dreamers just apply for citizenship?
The pathways [to citizenship] are restrictive and confined, said John Keller, executive director of the Minnesota Immigrant Law Center.
In 2016, just over 750,000 people became naturalized United States citizens, according to the [link=https://www.uscis.gov/news/fact-sheets/naturalization-fact-sheet]U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services[/link].
To do so, they needed to be a legal permanent resident (green card holder) for at least five years and have been physically present in the U.S. for the past 30 months.
Getting the green card is the hardest part of that process, and the one that keeps the vast majority of people all over the world from becoming legal U.S. citizens.
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Lindsey Graham is an effeminate beta who sounds dumber with every syllable he utters.
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Shutdown over pending House vote. funding through Feb 8 w pledge to address immigration from Republicans. Now the House has to vote to open or stay closed.
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Shumer folded like a cheap lounge chair.
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Quote from fw
Shumer folded like a cheap lounge chair.
Yeah. The Dems folded.
But now the leverage has shifted a bit in their direction for the next round.
First, CHIP is now settled, so the GOP can’t use the “what about the children?!” cudgel.
Second, McConnell has made a pledge to get immigration legislation to the floor.
I have a feeling that we might well be right back here again on Feb 8 if the Senate passes something Graham -Durbin but the House won’t move due to Ryan invoking the Imprisoned Child Molestor rule.
And if that comes to pass then you’ll have the GOP House looking like the bad guys refusing to pass broad bipartisan legislation.-
Yes but the dems can now add 15/hr wage increase–make all of America be on their side
Quote from dergon
Quote from fw
Shumer folded like a cheap lounge chair.
Yeah. The Dems folded.
But now the leverage has shifted a bit in their direction for the next round.
First, CHIP is now settled, so the GOP can’t use the “what about the children?!” cudgel.
Second, McConnell has made a pledge to get immigration legislation to the floor.
I have a feeling that we might well be right back here again on Feb 8 if the Senate passes something Graham -Durbin but the House won’t move due to Ryan invoking the Imprisoned Child Molestor rule.
And if that comes to pass then you’ll have the GOP House looking like the bad guys refusing to pass broad bipartisan legislation.
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here’s a video from today of Ted Cruz pretending he didn’t try and shut the government down in 2013. The reporter says “green eggs and ham?” To him. This dude must be nuttier than squirrel turds to try and say he didn’t try the shutdown in 2013.
[link]https://youtu.be/YC3Bu6EFqPs[/link]
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Quote from Frumious
Arguing tactics and strategy over rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. This single battle doesn’t matter so much as the war. All Schumer did was delay the battle for a few short weeks.
What matters is do we come up with sensible immigration policy or not. Do we want to keep out the brown people as the Republicans seem to want or not. Do we want to keep a Republic Democracy or increase the Executive to Authoritarian powers as Republicans seem to want everytime there is a Republican in the Presidency (recall the Unitary Executive of George Bush as argued by Chaney & his ilk, that the President is above the law, as we have heard today about Trump). Do we open permanent residency to Dreamers & DACA who have lived here since childhood & don’t know their birth countries, as if they have nothing to contribute because they are brown and “illegal” (“the children have made their choice” I think is a quote from some against DACA and Dreamers).
Do we pretend America is not built on assimilating immigrants?
The Know Nothing Party controls Congress and the Presidency but it doesn’t mean forever.
I must congratulate you, Frumious. You’ve slammed all who disagree with you as brown-people-hating racists, and cruel Scrooge-esque monsters who wish to gather up little children in cattle cars, all in one hate-filled and totally innacurate post. But keep it up. Goebbels correct noted that people will accept lies as truth if they are repeated often enough. Alinsky much?
Even through Trump likely never said “sh1th0le”, we simply cannot accept every single person from outside the US who is trying to escape failed governments. We are at the point where our own resources are stretched to the limit, and we have starving Americans we haven’t fed. We simply cannot take everyone, particularly those who are urged by their own governments (e.g. Mexico) to come take advantage of our generous welfare system. We need to invite those who would improve our country, through their skills, their labor, their drive. “Whiteness” has nothing to do with it. To allege that it does is to hide behind the usual false whines of “Racist!!!” by which you admit that you are wrong before you’ve even started.
As for the “Dreamers” and DACA…What part of ILLEGAL don’t you get? These people or their parents entered this nation ILLEGALLY, BREAKING THE LAW. That they settled here stealthily and lived for however long in that manner has no bearing, any more than it does for a bank robber or murderer who avoided capture for however many years. Leftists don’t seem to understand that if bad behavior is rewarded, it will continue. And you either don’t get or think the rest of us don’t grasp that the Democrats want to make these ILLEGAL immigrants citizens ASAP because and ONLY because they want more uneducated folks on the (unidentified) voter roles who will reliably vote Democratic for life (and often beyond). The Dems love children about as much as I love Brussels sprouts, which is to say not much. But they do LOVE power.
As usual, you are perpetuating lies. If you actually believe them, well, that’s on you.-
are you not doing the exact same thing? Perpetuating lies. Dems don’t love children? The want to make illegal people citizens ASAP? There’s been no substantive way that either party has dealt with immigration or illegals. Also TRump has the worst case of diarrhea of the mouth I’ve ever seen. It’s more than likely he said the $h1th0le comment.
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I’ll amend my comment. You rank and file Democrat sycophants DO care for children. I’ll give you that. I don’t doubt YOUR sincerity, just your judgement. The Dem LEADERSHIP, however, could not give one rat’s arse about children. They want the VOTES and that’s it.
As for sh1th0le…I [i]hope[/i] Trump didn’t say that, but the sentiment of not taking anyone form anywhere is understandable. Trump is the least racist man to sit in the Oval Office since I don’t know when, and that includes your white-hating previous occupant. Yes, Virginia, racism goes both ways. You folks have got your own intestines into an diarrheal uproar, clutching your pearls to your ample bosom, and having the vapors every time Trump talks like a normal working man, and not some effete, metrosexual, pinky-finger-raised snob. Get over it.
The solution is incredibly obvious, easy, and a win-win…Compulsory FIVE years of service, either military, or civilian equivalent, gets you in. And you MAY NOT VOTE during that time. This is the perfect solution, which should be acceptable to all. But since it makes sense, neither party will do it, will they?-
When you say “You rank and file Democrat sycophants” I’m assuming you mean me also, but I’m not a democrat. So there’s another lie.
Also this might be the most ridiculous thing I’ve read in a really long time.
“Trump is the least racist man to sit in the Oval Office since I don’t know when, and that includes your white-hating previous occupant.”-
You can call me all the names you wish, and label yourself anything you wish, but the truth is the truth. Sorry.
See, this is what’s happening in this nation. To all sides, really, but the Trump-haters are much more immersed. Everything out there is held under a microscope, one with broken optics, and it’s all twisted into some demented meme that is repeated over and over and over until it is believed. Trump is a racist! Trump (with more Jewish grandchildren than most reform Jews) is an anti-semite! Trump is a big nasty foul-mouthed brute! Trump will make the markets crash! Trump has no chance of winning! Trump is way down in all the polls! Trump kidnapped the Lindberg baby! (OK, I made up that last one.)
AND YOU PEOPLE GOBBLE THIS CR@P UP LIKE CANDY. All the while ignoring the foibles of the Previous Occupant, who was every bit the racist you accuse Trump of being. Yes, hating white people is racist, despite what your BLM friends might tell you.
I won’t change [i]your[/i] minds, but I do find some shred of comfort in pointing out the madness to the lurkers on the board.-
I’m not a democrat, and here’s the definition of sycophant per google.
“a person who acts obsequiously toward someone important in order to gain advantage”
which democrats am I serving?-
All of them if you buy into their propaganda.
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says the person who posted a link to pjmedia.com about FBI secret society.
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Dalai is losing it
I mean everyone has bias but damn
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Liberals are livid that Shumer folded. That’s a good sign.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
says the person who posted a link to pjmedia.com about FBI secret society.
Win. 🙂
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Quote from dergon
Quote from DICOM_Dan
says the person who posted a link to pjmedia.com about FBI secret society.
Win. 🙂
Ah, the usual juvenile High-fiving when you [i]think[/i] you’ve pulled one over on those po’ dumb Trump-lovin’ hicks.
You must admit to yourselves, if not to everyone else, that the media is not about to go rogue on their masters and report what might turn out to be a scandal that makes Watergate look like a a tiny little misunderstanding. Only Fox reports any of this stuff, and then only a watered-down version.
And you must also admit to yourselves, if not to everyone else, especially not to lil’ ol’ me, one of those po’ dumb Trump-lovin’ hicks, that something here doesn’t smell right. There is a significant possibility that the highest law-enforcement entity in the land plotted to depose a President who was duly elected in the manner set out by the Constitution. Two agents were dismissed from the Mueller investigation whom you all admit held anti-Trump views. Remember the “insurance policy”? This was nothing less than a [i]coup d’etat[/i]. Do you really think these two were alone in their views and plans? This should shake you to the core of your being. Unless you agree that rogue elements should be able to overthrow a government which which you don’t happen to agree. In which case, you live in the wrong country
Please do proceed with the usual taunts. [i]Dalai’s lost it. Dalai’s crazy. Dalai’s a hack[/i]. You can hide behind grade-school playground banter, but maybe you should step back a second and consider just what is going on in DC. -
Quote from DoctorDalai
Quote from dergon
Quote from DICOM_Dan
says the person who posted a link to pjmedia.com about FBI secret society.
Win. 🙂
Ah, the usual juvenile High-fiving when you [i]think[/i] you’ve pulled one over on those po’ dumb Trump-lovin’ hicks.
You must admit to yourselves, if not to everyone else, that the media is not about to go rogue on their masters and report what might turn out to be a scandal that makes Watergate look like a a tiny little misunderstanding. Only Fox reports any of this stuff, and then only a watered-down version.
And you must also admit to yourselves, if not to everyone else, especially not to lil’ ol’ me, one of those po’ dumb Trump-lovin’ hicks, that something here doesn’t smell right. There is a significant possibility that the highest law-enforcement entity in the land plotted to depose a President who was duly elected in the manner set out by the Constitution. Two agents were dismissed from the Mueller investigation whom you all admit held anti-Trump views. Remember the “insurance policy”? This was nothing less than a [i]coup d’etat[/i]. Do you really think these two were alone in their views and plans? This should shake you to the core of your being. Unless you agree that rogue elements should be able to overthrow a government which which you don’t happen to agree. In which case, you live in the wrong country
Please do proceed with the usual taunts. [i]Dalai’s lost it. Dalai’s crazy. Dalai’s a hack[/i]. You can hide behind grade-school playground banter, but maybe you should step back a second and consider just what is going on in DC.
Neither myself nor from what I see Dergon called you anything. You act like there’s some kind of cospiracy where the news, the FBI, the DOJ and just everyone’s out to get Trumpers. We’re all kooks for buying into the lame street media, right? However, you then go straight off the deep end of conspiracies, and you might as well start posting links to infowars. Alex jones is the real news, right?
I don’t think this Strzok guy or Page lady are anything but fair to middling FBI employees. They’re not overthrowing the government.
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Quote from DoctorDalai
I must congratulate you, Frumious. You’ve slammed all who disagree with you as brown-people-hating racists, and cruel Scrooge-esque monsters who wish to gather up little children in cattle cars, all in one hate-filled and totally innacurate post. But keep it up. Goebbels correct noted that people will accept lies as truth if they are repeated often enough. Alinsky much?
If it waddles like a duck & quacks like a duck & looks like a duck, it likely is a duck. Trump’s statement about “sh1thole” countries is true as even Republicans acknowledge; the immigrants used as examples of who the don’t want to come in & who they want to throw out are always brown it seems while Norwegians are a shoo-in. It’s about complexion. And religion, ask the Nazis who support Trump.
Republicans are not in support of any logical intelligent or even compassionate immigration even for refugees policy because their base opposes it. We are back to the 1930’s and 1940’s people fleeing tyranny & murder with many in America refusing them entrance.
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It’s impossible to make everyone happy.
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[blockquote] It’s impossible to make everyone happy.
[/blockquote] That is the only thing posted today with which everyone will agree.
Let’s make this simple.
[i]Either[/i] my side or your side is without question drinking the Kool-Aide. [i]One[/i] side is completely deluded, to the point of being brain-washed. One side is being led around by the nose, believing every single lie their leadership tells them.
I think that describes your side. You think the opposite.
Time will tell.
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[b]Equal blame for shutdown[/b]
A new [link=https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/poll-democrats-trump-blame-government-shutdown-n840246]NBC News/Survey Monkey poll[/link] finds that 39% of Americans think Democrats in Congress are responsible for the recent government shutdown.
In contrast, 38% blamed President Trump and just 18% said Republicans in Congress were to blame. Taken together, however, the poll shows that a slight majority of Americans 56% blame the president and his party.
Also interesting: 60% said Trump did not show strong leadership qualities during the recent negotiations over a shutdown.
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The “problem” is that Schumer & the Democrats are not either Gingrich or Ted Cruz or President Trump. Gingrich & Cruz actually closed the government as a tactic against Democratic Presidents & Trump (& his son) stated being in favor of a government shutdown. None of these actors really give a damn about the American people and are hostile to government.
Democrats aren’t hostile to government or it’s employees and services & actually do give a damn about shutting down government. So this was difficult from the start for Democrats to pull off.-
Quote from Frumious
Democrats aren’t hostile to government or it’s employees and services & actually do give a damn about shutting down government. So this was difficult from the start for Democrats to pull off.
If democrats care so much about the government employees and contractors, why did they decide to piss on them in favor of illegal immigrants ?-
you mean you care about government employees? Since when?
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Curious
Anyone here know any illegal immigrants
ever?
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Quote from kpack123
Curious
Anyone here know any illegal immigrants
ever?
Great Question kpack. Can I also ask.. anyone on this forum an Illegal immigrant or a DACA person? If so, how did you acquire a SS Card? If you own a Home… how did you buy it? How did you acquire a Drivers License? If you have a professional license, how where you able to get it? How do they pay federal income taxes if they are not a registered citizen? With an Illegal SS#?
I’d like to know really. I may use that same strategy to have my Blond Polish-Cajun Daughter somehow get through Medical school. (yeah, I have her put that on all forms instead of Caucasian). Blond Polish-Cajun female Americans are one of the lowest Minorities and the most likely to not make it past 3rd grade. Lol.
Dahlie makes a great point about race and Trump yet, I read such disrespect based on his opinion because he may be White? But I have to say that everyone on this blog is a racists one way or another. If you are proud of your heritage… then your a Racists as well to some point. But on the left, it only pertains to White or Lite skinned people. If you are not white , then it is ok to spew hatred to others of different color. Because they feel it is their right. Have you ever watched Black and Hispanic comedians cut down other NON-white races on BET? You bet they do. Asians, East Indian, Jews, Gays, Trans-gender all races and sexuality. But that’s ok, it’s their right they claim as they are suffering the most. Have an Asian comedian do the opposite… all hell would brake loose.
You know other cultures look down upon their own based on Color within their community but it is never mentioned. Ever heard of the terms “blues / crayons / yellows”? I heard of these expressions from an NPR segment years ago regarding black communities and how coloring effected acceptance in their community. I’m aware that Hispanic and East India and Asian cultures have similarity in their own communities. White people have opinions about Gingers – blondes – Italians – Irish -Polish- Swedes – Germans – Jews – etc. But I don’t believe we comment on Albino’s except for Edgar Winter. (Rock ON!). If you going to spew about my race, please look a the disservice in your own based on color or sexuality.
Last thing. If you really believe Trump is a racist. Why would he have so many non-white staffing, in all positions, in all of his businesses? He must have been forced to hire non-whites all these years so he can run for Presidency in 2016. I wonder what the ratio is of Black to Non Black staffing is at BET or CNN or MSNBC. I bet pretty low.
I’m all for the DACA people getting registered legally as soon as possible. Forget making them serve, get registered, get in the system, add to the taxation process, contribute to the country that still allowed you in and provided you with help through tax dollars; we need your tax dollars so you can get a true refund back. H&R block need more business. The Republicans need to stop blocking this. -
Quote from kpack123
Curious
Anyone here know any illegal immigrants
ever?
I knew a couple. With some help and good lawyering they all managed to eventually become permanent residents.-
Curious
Anyone here know any illegal immigrants
ever?
A few. All Irish visa overstays.
Some are still in the shadows, others married into citizenship.
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[b]Schumer takes Wall funding off the table[/b]
I hope that Schumer’s pivot, in addition to a big retreat from having been seen caving, is also a refocus of the Dem strategy.
The Democrats should shift their immigration rallying cry to “NO Wall!” … and away from DACA.
They need to face reality that they are in the minority. It’s a lot harder to [i]get[/i] something like DACA then it is to [i]block[/i] something like the wall. It also is a much easier issue for vulnerable Red state Dems to live on coming into the midterms.
Leave DACA in Trump’s hands and have the issue.
Look to November 2018 with steely-eyed pragmatism.
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Quote from dergon
[b]Schumer takes Wall funding off the table[/b]
I hope that Schumer’s pivot, in addition to a big retreat from having been seen caving, is also a refocus of the Dem strategy.
The Democrats should shift their immigration rallying cry to “NO Wall!” … and away from DACA.
They need to face reality that they are in the minority. It’s a lot harder to [i]get[/i] something like DACA then it is to [i]block[/i] something like the wall. It also is a much easier issue for vulnerable Red state Dems to live on coming into the midterms.
Leave DACA in Trump’s hands and have the issue.
Look to November 2018 with steely-eyed pragmatism.
I thought ‘the polls’ said that DACA was so incredibly popular ? Everyone wants the government to do it and only some cruel reactionaries who delight in poor little children being locked up could possibly be against it ?
In related news. With the careless talk from the democrats planning to force DACA with a must-pass bill, families in central america again got the message that everyone is welcome as long as they are a minor and brought by others. In December, the number of unacompanied minors at the southern border was up 68%. People die in the desert because of the dems playing politics. SAD!-
Are you a Dalai by another name or just another intoxicated by the Kool Aid? 68%? & all due to Democrats actions now? These people are prescient.
Or more likely fake news propaganda.
Links & real data please, not hallucinatory made up figures & facts. Id like to see the 68% figures.
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I just dont get the fear element here
So far one of us has claimed to know a few
Im sure most of these people are hard working individuals who get a paycheck from someone who is a citizen and should be held accountable
I understand the basic premise of they are here illegally but what I dont understand is the outrage and hostility toward them and the turning of a blind eye towards the people who hire them illegally…..likely taking advantage of them and probably abusing our tax system as well
To me this makes no sense……. you want to kill the king you cut off his head not his feet
The wall wont stop this. Passing some new laws wont stop this.
Putting these employers in jail will stop it
Its not that hard
But it is a lot easier to be mad at the illegals
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Quote from dergon
[b]Equal blame for shutdown[/b]
A new [link=https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/poll-democrats-trump-blame-government-shutdown-n840246]NBC News/Survey Monkey poll[/link] finds that 39% of Americans think Democrats in Congress are responsible for the recent government shutdown.
In contrast, 38% blamed President Trump and just 18% said Republicans in Congress were to blame. Taken together, however, the poll shows that a slight majority of Americans 56% blame the president and his party.
Surveymonkey is what I use to find out who brings the hamburger buns for the boyscout cookout.
More than twice the number of respondents blame the democrats yet you claim the exact opposite of your survey data as a result. Laughable.
You are making the mistake of adding two things that overlap and then look at the total without removing the overlap.
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Quote from kpack123
Curious
Anyone here know any illegal immigrants
ever?
I know very many Hispanics now and throughout my life. Can’t say I ever met any “illegals.”
Same for Muslims, including physicians and Africans from Egypt to South Africa; Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese, no “illegals.” None were “illegal” that I know of.
I am not aware I know or have met a single “illegal.”-
Dreaming O’Connell & Republicans will keep their word.
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