[mpezeshkirad_710]

Quote from jd4540

I thought the republican party was in shambles, full of internal turmoil/conflict. Nothing like winning to put these issues in the rear-view mirror (at least temporarily)…Democrats now have their challenges.  They ignored the Sander’s populist movement in their party, have 25 senate seats to defend in 2018, and currently 25% of their house members are from only 2 states (CA/MA)

Democrats got steamrolled
 
They are a mess.  No leader, no message, moving too far left.  At this rate they will get creamed again in 2018.  California should secede, I would applaud it.
 
I hear they are now trying to put some Muslim congressman into the DNC chair.  And they can also keep relying on celebrity endorsements, ignoring the American people and getting crushed in one election after another.

[alyaa.rifaie_129]

And look who they nominated – she was automatically coronated and the party just rolled over for her. Did anyone stop and use some conventional wisdom that if  Obama beat her in 2008 why would the dems think she could win 8 years later when she was under investigation for the email, Foundation, and her job as Sec of State. She ran on nothing other than her name and supporting the status quo. Even her aides in the emails were concerned about what she stood for and why see was running. The best speech she ever gave was her concession speech where she actually appeared to be likeable and did not come across as an angry individual.

[Unknown Member]

They won the popular vote 6 out of the last presidential elections

So there are more democrats than republicans

They will regroup quickly

When trumps trickle down economic team shows their hand and the coal mines and steel mills and the auto industry doesn’t amazingly come back, the rust belt voters will see they have been had

[btomba_77]

I don’t think the Democrats need to freak out.  They won the popular vote with what turned out to be a very weak candidate of the establishment in a change election.
 
I’m not sure the GOP will be able to turn out the Trump voter in future elections. (If Trump surprises and actually has a successful Presidency then he can himself probably do it in 2020… but I doubt the GOP is going to go along with much of his populism and the anger of the white working class who doesn’t get their jobs and cultural power back will be redirected at the Republicans)
 
The Demographics still favor the Democrats in the longer run.
 
Just put up a better candidate who can do a couple points better with whites and they’re fine.

[jquinones8812_854]

Quote from kpack123

They won the popular vote 6 out of the last presidential elections

So there are more democrats than republicans

They will regroup quickly

When trumps trickle down economic team shows their hand and the coal mines and steel mills and the auto industry doesn’t amazingly come back, the rust belt voters will see they have been had

They also lost the popular vote among House candidates.
 
I don’t know…I think we are still in a 50/50 country where shifting majorities are going to be the norm for a long, long time. No more permanent majorities in the near future. 

GOP thought they would get a permanent majority in 2004; Dems in 2012. Both were proven very wrong. 

[jquinones8812_854]

As said above, the biggest problem for Dems is their bench is thin as paper napkin. There are literally no big stars on the horizon.

They were lucky that Obama emerged when he did  They will need that kind of luck in 2020.
 
I mean, look at the options. Kaine? Warren? Booker?  Booker is young but no Obama. The rest of the choices are old white people. 
 
I think the Dem playbook is clear: young, energetic Minority candidate who can speak to working white voters. That was Obama.  Nobody I see right now can do that, but things are always in motion. 
 
You put any of those old white people up against Trump…you will have a mirror image of 2012..unless Trump is a disaster, which is wholly possible, in which case this entire discussion doesn’t matter. 

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from MISTRAD

As said above, the biggest problem for Dems is their bench is thin as paper napkin. There are literally no big stars on the horizon.

If we’re going to talk bench depth, yes, Democrats do need work, no argument.
 
But the “deep bench” of Republicans of “the most highly qualified candidates” or some such that was said was just another GOP deep bench of idiots spouting idiotic lies and misinformation to a base that sucked it up. Once upon a time I though McCain was a reasonable choice & then he picked Sarah the Fool. This time around was only Kasich, a former bomb-thrower who became a RINO in the eyes of most of the Republicans. So we get the TV Celebrity candidate who wins based on his lies about where Obama was born (not American) and goes downhill from there from the size of his hands as it relates to his penis to a vagina-grabbing brag, “the women let you.”
 
So tell me again what’s the matter with Democrats?

[aryfa_995]

Dems need somebody who can speak to rust belt folks. White or otherwise. The coasts will go for the dem either way. This isn’t that difficult.

State level races and the House are way different ball games. GOP running circles around dems when it comes to gerrymandering. That’ll take multiple elections to undo.

[kayla.meyer_144]

The rust belt folks have to be willing to listen too. Can’t talk to an empty room. The rust belt people started moving over the Republicans in the 1970’s with Nixon & in volumes under Reagan mainly because the Democrats became synonymous in these people’s minds as the Minority Party, giving giving away everything to minorities in a zero-sum world. That hasn’t changed, in fact the noise got louder as we’ve seen since Obama’s election. Trump has now “normalized” all this “negativity,” to be polite.
 
So the Trump voters will take the assistance given by Democrats & resent it at the same time & continue to vote for the Party that wants to reduce this “dependence” without really solving the underlying problem.
 
More of the same. Next we’ll see hearings and Special Prosecutor for Hillary for no good reason other than to keep distractions in the base’s eye. & poke the rest of America in the eye. It will turn up nothing but I’m sure we will find Hillary to be a more brilliant criminal than Prof. Moriarty. And lack of finding anything will be proof of her deviousness and criminality.
 
 

[Unknown Member]

In the euphoria of an electoral win each side is bound to be irrationally exuberant but just remember that 2 weeks ago the Republican party was nearly moribund. On election night Trump and his team and supporters were downright shocked to win. And now it’s the Democrats’ turn to be despondent.

I don’t see much to convince me that the fundamentals favor decades-long Republican rule in the White House. I see this thing yo-yoing like it always does.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Given. But a petulant child given a dangerous weapon can cause a bit of damage in a short time. So infrastructure could get older without repairs, We could see tax cuts, likely – with increasing deficits – likely. We could see a slightly altered ACA, more appearance than real changes but will see health care costs increase much more than now but I’m sure Obama will somehow be to blame. The Executive will grow more powerful and the world will likely become more dangerous and government will grow.
 
As for anything positive, was there anything positive in Trump’s platform? I mean real not slogans. Industry will be brought back to the Rust Belt as it was when “America was Great Once?” Did I miss a positive message? I don’t think there ever was one.
 
Clinton uninspiring, Trump scary.
 
 

[enrirad2000]

Quote from Frumious

Clinton uninspiring, Trump scary.

 
Doesn’t matter. Myself I am a swing voter, and so as millions. The biggest factor is MONEY. Vast majority of the people vote by their pocket books. Doesn’t matter, white, black, brown, Latino, Muslim, Millennial, immigrant, country boy or LGBT.  
 
Remember the saying?  It’s the economy stupid!!

[kayla.meyer_144]

Call me extremely skeptical that Trump will improve the economy and decrease deficits. As a member of the higher tax bracket, you likely will see an improvement in your income due to decreased taxes. Reimbursements will probably remain the same at best & business might decline due to health care costs. So we will see how way off I am.

[btomba_77]

Deficits are going to expand MASSIVELY in the Trump administration

The combination of tax cuts (weighted to the wealthy), a big infrastructure program, and military expansion will have deficits > $ 1 trillion annually in a hurry.

[Unknown Member]

“Clinton uninspiring, Trump scary.”
Apart from that whole thing with Clinton wanting to get us into more wars in the Middle East and with Russia, and Trump basically suggesting that the country smoke a joint (in the foreign policy sense) and stop trying to muck around in every corner of the world.
Trump was the human rights candidate. You can thank us in private for voting for him; we need no public recognition.

[kaldridgewv2211]

there in lies that balancing I’d like to see happen.  You can’t throw infinite money at everything year in and year out.  Time to start spending less than what they take in, and put it to use in the best ways possible.  
 
Here’s another great example of wasting money.  Do we really want to give the military more money?  We’ve created Navy destroyers but we didn’t buy enough of them and so now it costs $800 for 1 round of ammo to load it’s advanced weaponary:
 
The [link=http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/heres-the-first-video-of-the-navys-new-zumwalt-class-de-1746903223]U.S.S. Zumwalt (DDG-1000)[/link] stealth destroyer is equipped with a pair of huge guns that are so advanced, they are said to be able to accurately hit targets 80 miles away with very little collateral damage. The only problem is that the rounds for the guns cost a least $800,000 each, which the U.S. Navy believes to be excessive.
 
[link=http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/each-round-for-the-uss-zumwalt-costs-800-000-and-the-n-1788765510]http://foxtrotalpha.jalop…0-and-the-n-1788765510[/link]

[ruszja]

800k per round, not 800 bucks.

$800 buys you a hammer, or maybe a wrench.

[kaldridgewv2211]

Yea thanks. I meant to put a “k” after the 800.

[jquinones8812_854]

Both parties are kind of screwed. Neither stands for anything. 

GOP will simply hold together because they have power. Dems are going to really fall apart. 

[ruszja]

Quote from MISTRAD

Both parties are kind of screwed. Neither stands for anything. 

GOP will simply hold together because they have power. Dems are going to really fall apart. 

 
Martin O’Malley is making noises that he wants to run for the DNC chair. The guy is like herpes, just when you think he is gone, he pops back up.

[jquinones8812_854]

Quote from fw

Quote from MISTRAD

Both parties are kind of screwed. Neither stands for anything. 

GOP will simply hold together because they have power. Dems are going to really fall apart. 

Martin O’Malley is making noises that he wants to run for the DNC chair. The guy is like herpes, just when you think he is gone, he pops back up.

 
Howard Dean will win it.

[Unknown Member]

[/quote]
Martin O’Malley is making noises that he wants to run for the DNC chair.[i][b] The guy is like herpes, just when you think he is gone, he pops back up. [/b][/i]
[/quote]
 
I don’t care how many times I hear this line, I still think it’s funny.

[100574]

colorado gov–keep in mind-
 
uote=MISTRAD] 

As said above, the biggest problem for Dems is their bench is thin as paper napkin. There are literally no big stars on the horizon.

They were lucky that Obama emerged when he did  They will need that kind of luck in 2020.

I mean, look at the options. Kaine? Warren? Booker?  Booker is young but no Obama. The rest of the choices are old white people. 

I think the Dem playbook is clear: young, energetic Minority candidate who can speak to working white voters. That was Obama.  Nobody I see right now can do that, but things are always in motion. 

You put any of those old white people up against Trump…you will have a mirror image of 2012..unless Trump is a disaster, which is wholly possible, in which case this entire discussion doesn’t matter. 
[/quote]

[jquinones8812_854]

Quote from sentinel lymph node

colorado gov–keep in mind-

uote=MISTRAD] 

As said above, the biggest problem for Dems is their bench is thin as paper napkin. There are literally no big stars on the horizon.

They were lucky that Obama emerged when he did  They will need that kind of luck in 2020.

I mean, look at the options. Kaine? Warren? Booker?  Booker is young but no Obama. The rest of the choices are old white people. 

I think the Dem playbook is clear: young, energetic Minority candidate who can speak to working white voters. That was Obama.  Nobody I see right now can do that, but things are always in motion. 

You put any of those old white people up against Trump…you will have a mirror image of 2012..unless Trump is a disaster, which is wholly possible, in which case this entire discussion doesn’t matter. 

Hickenlooper is ok, but how would he play in the rust belt that Trump just stormed? Not sure.  
 
My guess (and it is a wild, wild guess) is that Obama is the playbook they will need to win going forward: Minority candidate from a battleground state, who can play both to moderates as well as progressives.
 
They MUST drive up minority votes to be competitive in those states.  
 
Democrats will figure it out. If you have learned anything from 2000, it is that there are no permanent majorities. The only question is how long it takes them to figure it out, and for the GOP to screw up. 

[kayla.meyer_144]

I think the white & evangelical vote for Trump is mostly a lost cause. They have been trending to the GOP since Nixon and Reagan that really hardened with the election of Obama & I don’t see that changing in their older age. The idea of winning them over is mostly a fantasy lost cause. It’s the young voters who have different values like tolerance that are closer to Democratic values and who tire of the anger and hate from the Right that would be the ones to win over. The minorities had better wake up about voting too. As Obama recently pointed out, elections have consequences. The 1st time he said that the Right just spit in his face, this time the minorities and other voters who support Democratic ideas and policies have to realize when you stay home the opposition gets to decide the agenda.

[Unknown Member]

I can only hope going forward that minorities (black, Hispanic, Asian) wouldn’t be voting in lockstep for the Democratic Party all the time. I believe Donald Trump was right about the party taking the minority voters for granted.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from rayZor

I can only hope going forward that minorities (black, Hispanic, Asian) wouldn’t be voting in lockstep for the Democratic Party all the time. I believe Donald Trump was right about the party taking the minority voters for granted.

I would hope not also but what do the Republicans offer? The last Republican that waded into a black audience talking to them was Rand Paul. And the other Republicans though he was a fool for doing that.
 
Give him credit for that even if his agenda wasn’t theirs.

[aryfa_995]

Republicans gaining more on minorities? Lmao. Did you watch the same election I did? The only minorities Trump won were already Republican.
 
GOP is gonna have to start singing a different tune on immigration and “entitlements” if they want to make inroads. After last Tuesday, why would they do such a thing?

[kayla.meyer_144]

The truth is that with the signing of the Voting Rights Act, the Republicans used race animus to grow their Party. Trump just brought out all the ugliness and hatred out into the open. So yes, until the Republicans move off of race as their central issue to divide, there is little to no reason for blacks and minorities to join. Especially when their voting is deliberately disenfranchised by the GOP.
 
How to join hands with those who work and speak against you?
 
You don’t.

[Unknown Member]

White radiologists talking about race.

[aryfa_995]

You don’t know anything about me.
 
 
 
 
 
I’m a radiation oncologist.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from dontmindme

White radiologists talking about race.

And your point? What would you know about anything?
 
I was talking about history.

[kayla.meyer_144]

GEORGE PACKER: Right. It used to be that the working class, broadly speaking – Americans who worked with their hands, who worked in factories, who were not in management – were an interest group, a political interest group. And their main spokespersons were the Democrats. Their platform was the Democratic Party. And that began to change after the 1960s. Not for black or other working class Americans, but for white working class. That particular group drifted toward the Republican Party. And this year we see it more dramatically than ever in the numbers who support Trump. That is his base, working class as to say non-college educated white Americans.

So you have to make it both a race and a class category because working class doesn’t describe it. But white doesn’t describe it either, since more educated white people actually seem to be moving toward Hillary Clinton in numbers larger than they moved toward Barack Obama in 2012. So it really is a quadrant that has emerged as Trump’s base. And it’s – by a self-conscious identity group, I mean he’s appealing to it as an interest group. He isn’t using the word white but we all know what he means. We all know who he’s talking to. When he says make America great again, we know whose America that is. And in a sense, whites who were always sort of the unthinking majority who didn’t think of themselves necessarily as one among many interest groups but is simply the dominant group, now as whites become – are close to becoming a minority of Americans, are becoming a political interest group. And that’s what Trump is playing to. And it’s a really dangerous, volatile game.

But that’s – that is the – maybe the biggest story of this election is that group has become a group of self-conscious voters. And it started, I think, in 2008 with Sarah Palin. That was when white identity politics first emerged, when she would come on stage to the tune of “Redneck Woman” and her clothing and her accent and her glasses all said this is the group I belong to. And now Trump has kind of consummated it.

[Unknown Member]

If it’s a race between non college educated whites vs. the rest of America I believe the revolution won’t last long. Kind of like the Tea Party left a lot of folks with bumper stickers and deficits in their bank accounts after paying dues to join and watching the charlatans run off after fleecing them.

Part of what gives me hope is that there’s Trumpism which just won, and there’s conservative/Republican orthodoxy which is ultimately anathema to the interest of the little man, such as the non college educated white in rural Indiana. We shall see in next couple of years if the 2 sides can marry.

The challenge is to have someone like Howard Dean come back into DNC leadership with the 50-state strategy/leave no voters behind mindset, and we’ll see how things unfold. I also see Obama playing a huge part in running up numbers to vote for democratic causes among the rest of America once he’s out of office.

[Unknown Member]

Unlike the ethically challenged Clintons who got about building Clinton, Inc., I suspect the Obamas, especially Barack, will likely stay hungry and engaged.

[kayla.meyer_144]

The new community organizer?

[kayla.meyer_144]

He could organize quite a lot but a lot of those white working class people seem a bit hostile to putting their faith in a black man, as we’ve seen & heard.

[kaldridgewv2211]

in the case of BO why bother doing anything.  Just go play golf and collect the money people will be throwing at you.  Figure out some charity to support and done.

[Unknown Member]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

in the case of BO why bother doing anything.  Just go play golf and collect the money people will be throwing at you.  Figure out some charity to support and done.

 
I hear you, but I don’t think Mr. Obama does.  He seems pretty driven.  I doubt he’ll relax much, if at all.

[kayla.meyer_144]

He should get involved & energize the Democratic get out the vote, especially starting in 2018.
 
I think the white working class is a self-defeated lost cause. All they have is their anger and resentment so they’ll find any demagogue who stokes that.

[tdetlie_105]

Quote from Frumious

I think the white working class is a self-defeated lost cause. All they have is their anger and resentment so they’ll find any demagogue who stokes that.

 
Any economic hope for them?

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from jd4540

Quote from Frumious

I think the white working class is a self-defeated lost cause. All they have is their anger and resentment so they’ll find any demagogue who stokes that.

Any economic hope for them?

Not by voting against their own self interests there isn’t. What do Republicans have to offer? Ayn Rand thinking? Ryan’s and Carson’s thinking the helping someone makes them dependent & lazier? (For purportedly religious guys they haven’t read their Bible & what Jesus said & did.)
 
No, any help & success they get will be in spite of what they do. They are the characters in kpack’s book (& others), Hillbilly Elegy, taking help while resenting it & believing others, primarily “undeserving” minorities are getting more.
 
& if you think Republicans give a damn about poor white voters, read
Kevin D. Williamson’s articles in National Review to see the disdain blaming the poor themselves entirely for their own plight of being ignorant, violent & downright unpleasant, an idea that’s been stated multiple times on this forum many times before.
 

 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

Some historical information of the move of these poor white voters form Democrats to Republicans:
 
[link=http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/17/opinion/the-not-so-silent-white-majority.html]http://www.nytimes.com/20…nt-white-majority.html[/link]

In 1968, these white voters often low or moderate income, disproportionately male and clustered in exurban and rural areas, then as now were crucial to the birth of the modern conservative coalition.

That year, famously, southern whites angered by enactment of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1965 Voting Rights Act abandoned the Democratic Party in droves, and they were soon joined by many northern whites opposed to court-ordered busing.

The Democratic Partys commitment to civil rights prompted millions of white voters to cast ballots either for Richard Nixon, running as the Republican nominee, or for George Wallace, the segregationist Dixiecrat and former governor of Alabama, running as the nominee of the American Independent Party.

Together, Nixon and Wallace won 56.9 percent of all votes in 1968 and more than six out of every ten white votes, laying the groundwork for the conversion of the segregationist wing of the Democratic Party into a key component of the modern Republican Party. Democrats have made inroads into this coalition a few times, either by running more centrist Southerners like Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton or through the campaign magic of Barack Obama, who promised to transcend the red-blue divide. But this white Republican coalition has proved remarkably enduring.

In the two elections before 1968, John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson, both Democrats, averaged 55 percent of the white working class vote. According to Ruy Teixeira, a senior fellow at the pro-Democratic Center for American Progress, Hubert Humphrey and George McGovern, both Democrats, averaged 35 percent of that vote, in 1968 and 1972. Since that time, many Republican candidates have tapped into anti-black bias without running as overt segregationists.

The Republicans suddenly became the party of the white working class, Teixeira wrote on his blog.

The election of Ronald Reagan in 1980 further strengthened the commitment of the white working class to Republican presidential candidates, especially in the North.

It was not, however, until 1994, with the so-called Gingrich revolution, that the Republican Party was able to finally rupture the continuing commitment of lower and moderate income whites to Democratic congressional candidates. The accompanying charts, derived from the 2000 book, Americas Forgotten Majority, by Teixeira and Joel Rogers, show how the bottom fell out in 1994 for white working class Democratic congressional support.
 
First, while Trump barely improved on Romneys margin among whites generally, the whites who did vote for Trump were significantly different from those who voted for Romney. Trump won non-college whites by 14 points more than Romney, a modern day record. Just as important, the working class voters Trump carried by such huge margins were heavily concentrated in the Rust Belt states of Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, Iowa and Pennsylvania all states carried by Obama in 2012 and lost by Clinton in 2016. Together, these state cast 70 Electoral College votes.

Trumps voters were situated in a way that allowed them to exercise far more influence on the outcome in the Electoral College than their overall numbers would suggest, allowing Trump to sweep across the Rust Belt to victory.
 
[b]Greenberg found that for these voters, Blacks constitute the explanation of their vulnerability and for almost everything that has gone wrong in their lives.[/b]

[b]This special status of blacks is perceived by almost all of these individuals as a serious obstacle to their personal advancement. [u]Indeed, discrimination against whites has become a well-assimilated and ready explanation for their status, vulnerability and failures.[/u][/b]

The CRG study was equally brutal. These voters have a whole set of middle-class economic problems today, and their party is not helping them. Instead it is helping blacks, Hispanics and the poor. They feel betrayed.

[b]CRG found that in the view of the white working class, the Democrats are the giveaway party and giveaway means too much middle class money going to blacks and the poor.[/b]

 
 

[aryfa_995]

This election was more about democrats not showing up in WI, MI and PA rather than a bunch of midwesterners switching from Obama to Trump.

[helloatqa_509]

Exactly. I’m actually shocked he was able to hold the traditional base. Trump is by far the least conservative republican to run, particularly in the social sense.

[aryfa_995]

Yeah but he said all the right things and walked the right way. He came off as a guy who didn’t give a f*ck, which the GOP base loves. Couple that with eight years of Obama and the GOP voters were heavily incentivized to show up.
 
Also the near-criminal HRC campaign incompetence. It is truly astounding their arrogance in not really bothering to try with the aforementioned states. Just breathtaking. No need to blame millenials, or racists, or whatever other stupid crap the media is talking about.

[Unknown Member]

The county I grew up in in western Pennsylvania went for trump 75-25%

The population of the county has declined by 125% since 1985

Everyone with an ounce of brains left went to college moved to find a job

All that’s left are the drug addicticted types the workers comp types and a bunch of people working for minimum wage

Those are the Trump voters of the rust belt

And judging from the election there are a lot of them

The big thing is these people are just mad. They won’t help themselves and Trump sure as hello won’t help them either

They will be angry at Trump in a few years

Just watch

[aryfa_995]

That’s a good point. There are millions of people out there suffering, left behind by the decimation of unions, increasing drug abuse rates, free trade and now with an overall decrease in American life expectancy for the first time in a couple decades. Completely ignored by Washington. And soon to be ignored by Trump substantively, though he will continue his celebration tour for them. It may continue to work.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from deadwing

That’s a good point. There are millions of people out there suffering, left behind by the decimation of unions, increasing drug abuse rates, free trade and now with an overall decrease in American life expectancy for the first time in a couple decades. Completely ignored by Washington. And soon to be ignored by Trump substantively, though he will continue his celebration tour for them. It may continue to work.

Not exactly.
 
Yes, Hillary took a lot for granted and bet her campaign on the comparison with Trump, “Vote for me because the other choice is Trump!” Except the Dems stayed home and these AWOL Dems will see the results of their being AWOL & Hillary not “being inspiring enough.” Elections have consequences indeed.
 
However, if you read my post above of where the white working class voters went or lived through it like I have, you will see there is nothing the Democrats do that is good enough for these voters. They left in the 1960’s because of race & chose to forget that the War on Poverty was about helping them, the white poor people primarily with Appalachia as the poster for poverty & under-education. But they chose to see it all about how the Democrats are giving away what is rightfully theirs to minorities & so left the Democratic Party.
 
 

[aryfa_995]

I agree with you that there are voters out there that for some reason see a D after someone’s name and just can’t vote for them no matter what the policy proposals are. I am saying that HRC lost because people that voted democratic in 2012 in WI, PA and MI simply stayed home this time. There were some people that switched from Obama to Trump but they are a smaller number than those that simply didn’t vote in 2016 or voted third party.

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from deadwing

I agree with you that there are voters out there that for some reason see a D after someone’s name and just can’t vote for them no matter what the policy proposals are. I am saying that HRC lost because people that voted democratic in 2012 in WI, PA and MI simply stayed home this time. There were some people that switched from Obama to Trump but they are a much smaller number than those that simply didn’t vote in 2016.

Yes, the snowflakes stayed home.
 
And the number of Republican voters is still static at 10 million. But trying to woo the angry white poor working class is a waste of time so long as race can be made a factor.
 
 

[aryfa_995]

Forgive me but what is this 10 million number you’re referencing?

[kayla.meyer_144]

Apologies, the correct number is 60 million that’s static since 2004. A number I have posted here before.
 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

J.D. Vance moving back home – to Columbus, OH.
 
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/16/opinion/why-im-moving-home.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…hy-im-moving-home.html[/link]

[kaldridgewv2211]

I watched something on YouTube like a TED talk. It was JD Vance talking about his book. He makes some good points especially about how kids from supposed small town like Middletown might not know what opportunities are out there. Like he was well taken care of by needs based tuition assistance. So he was able to go to an excellent school. Other than that he just seems kind of condescending. Glad you made it out JD. Way to “come home” to Columbus.

[kayla.meyer_144]

JD and his people got and get a lot of government assistance, whether housing, living, food or education & yet they are hostile to government. Including undertones in JD’s writing.
 
Go figure. Biting the hands that feed you. Accepting help with a snarl.

[kaldridgewv2211]

It wasn’t that but he went to some Ivy Leaugue expensive school as I recall. It wouldve been very expensive but he got a whole of endowment fund sent his way. So it was actually a great deal for him. There’s probably kids that don’t realize they could qualify for that money.

[helloatqa_509]

Way to continue with the labels and mainstream denial. While that may be true for the particular county you speak of, nearly half of America’s population is not “drug addicticted types the workers comp types and a bunch of people working for minimum wage” and they are not the only reason by a long shot by Trump one. Agree that those particular folks are in for disappointment though.

[aryfa_995]

Quote from 1faztnsx

Way to continue with the labels and mainstream denial. While that may be true for the particular county you speak of, nearly half of America’s population is not “drug addicticted types the workers comp types and a bunch of people working for minimum wage”. Agree that those particular folks are in for disappointment though.

He’s not entirely wrong. I don’t know if you live in or have family in middle America, but it is f*cking brutal out there. Not that the GOP is offering anything at all to really deal with that. But neither did democrats obsessed with social justice crap.

[Unknown Member]

My comments were specifically aimed towards the rust belt

Anyone lives there please feel free to disagree

Say what you want but this what is my boyhood home in western Pennsylvania

Most of the northern and central part of the state is the same

I lived in central Ohio too

It’s the same way

These are the rust belt voters who have trump the election

They are angry and bitter

And they will be angry at trump in a short time too just watch

[helloatqa_509]

So what is the solution for them? Wait for natural selection to eventually wipe that whole demographic out? Trump won’t be able to help them and liberals despise them. 

[Unknown Member]

Actually many are taking care of that themselves

You really ought to look into it

The heroin addiction among the young …. The OxyContin addicts among the mid lifers

Excluding the larger cities Pittsburgh philly Columbus……… That is what you have there

[Unknown Member]

Read the book Hillbilly Ellegy

He is very much on point

I disagree with him on the issue of who is at fault

Me personally growing up in this area I honestly hold each individual accountable for their own situation

The author tends to more so blame society….. But none the less most of his points are so very true

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from 1faztnsx

So what is the solution for them? Wait for natural selection to eventually wipe that whole demographic out? Trump won’t be able to help them and liberals despise them. 

On the contrary, they despise the liberals, the very same people who have created programs to help them.
 
Let’s see, there is Social Security.
 
There is Medicare & Medicaid.
 
There is Universal Health Care and expansion of Medicaid to help the poor and indigent white people and others.
 
There is Federal education programs trying to improve their education.
 
And the list of Republican programs that help them is:
 
Wait for it…….cutting programs and spending back impoverishing them further.
 
WOW ! they say, THANKS! & then vote GOP.

[100574]

Amen–every program that the GOP fought against but poor whites still vote for them
Race and Sexism= Trump’s win

Quote from Frumious

Quote from 1faztnsx

So what is the solution for them? Wait for natural selection to eventually wipe that whole demographic out? Trump won’t be able to help them and liberals despise them. 

On the contrary, they despise the liberals, the very same people who have created programs to help them.

Let’s see, there is Social Security.

There is Medicare & Medicaid.

There is Universal Health Care and expansion of Medicaid to help the poor and indigent white people and others.

There is Federal education programs trying to improve their education.

And the list of Republican programs that help them is:

Wait for it…….cutting programs and spending back impoverishing them further.

WOW ! they say, THANKS! & then vote GOP.

[tdetlie_105]

Quote from Frumious

He should get involved & energize the Democratic get out the vote, especially starting in 2018.

 
Obama’s still relatively young, very charismatic, and sharp. He can still accomplish great things

[aryfa_995]

There’d be hope if they tried collective bargaining but they’ve been collectively brainwashed.

[100574]

2016 Ralph Nader award goes to–surprise–Comey with runner up Bernie/ Libertarian ticket which again did not get 5%

[Unknown Member]

The Democrats chose poorly, when they chose to side with every “victim” or grievance group, social outliers and racial baiter out there. Instead of representing all Americans, they identify their contingent by sub-groups, such as Muslim Americans, Black Americans, Mexican Americans, foreign nationals, anti-Christians, anti-gun, anti-male, anti-business etc. They ostracized voices of reason within their party, such as Jim Webb and they continue the madness if they select the only Muslim in Congress (Ellison) to head the DNC. The game went on too long and will only correct itself when they gravitate back to the center. Doubling up on stupid is not going to do the trick.   

[aryfa_995]

Why does it matter if he’s Muslim?

[kaldridgewv2211]

Like to see Pelosi get knocked off her high horse for Tim Ryan.

[helloatqa_509]

I can’t believe the Dems have her up again. Shows that they’ve learned nothing from all this. She also had the gall to say “Americans don’t want change.” She is completely out of touch.

[aryfa_995]

The “change” bullcrap is just something politicians say. Congress still has a 95+% reelection rate.
 
That being said, it still amazes me Pelosi has her job multiple elections after losing the majority.

[helloatqa_509]

95%+ rate is frightening to be honest. Corruption and influence of outside interests over time is inevitable. I don’t agree with a lot of what Trump says but term limits on congress would be a welcome change to shake things up IMO.

[100574]

he and warren or he and deval patrick

Quote from MISTRAD

Quote from sentinel lymph node

colorado gov–keep in mind-

uote=MISTRAD] 

As said above, the biggest problem for Dems is their bench is thin as paper napkin. There are literally no big stars on the horizon.

They were lucky that Obama emerged when he did  They will need that kind of luck in 2020.

I mean, look at the options. Kaine? Warren? Booker?  Booker is young but no Obama. The rest of the choices are old white people. 

I think the Dem playbook is clear: young, energetic Minority candidate who can speak to working white voters. That was Obama.  Nobody I see right now can do that, but things are always in motion. 

You put any of those old white people up against Trump…you will have a mirror image of 2012..unless Trump is a disaster, which is wholly possible, in which case this entire discussion doesn’t matter. 

Hickenlooper is ok, but how would he play in the rust belt that Trump just stormed? Not sure.  

My guess (and it is a wild, wild guess) is that Obama is the playbook they will need to win going forward: Minority candidate from a battleground state, who can play both to moderates as well as progressives.

They MUST drive up minority votes to be competitive in those states.  

Democrats will figure it out. If you have learned anything from 2000, it is that there are no permanent majorities. The only question is how long it takes them to figure it out, and for the GOP to screw up. 

[btomba_77]

Quote from MISTRAD

I don’t know…I think we are still in a 50/50 country where shifting majorities are going to be the norm for a long, long time. No more permanent majorities in the near future. 

 
I tend to agree with that.  Politics tends to equilibrate in the US .

[ruszja]

Quote from jd4540

I thought the republican party was in shambles, full of internal turmoil/conflict. Nothing like winning to put these issues in the rear-view mirror (at least temporarily)…Democrats now have their challenges.  They ignored the Sander’s populist movement in their party, have 25 senate seats to defend in 2018, and currently 25% of their house members are from only 2 states (CA/MA)

You dont understand. That’s because everyone but the people in MA and CA are racist. Racism explains everything. No need to change your personnel or message. The other side is racist and that is all you have to say.

[kaldridgewv2211]

I think it depends on how GOP from the top all the way down to the positions in local government perform.  We saw a massive beat down of democrats in my locality.  All democrats got the boot except for the county coroner, but he runs unopposed and who cares if he’s a democrat.

[Unknown Member]

Democrats are in desperate need of youn leadership

I will say that

[Unknown Member]

Young

[btomba_77]

I’m dergon and I agree with this take:
 
[link=https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-10-01/democratic-money-machine-shows-socialism-will-be-a-hard-sell?srnd=premium]https://www.bloomberg.com…hard-sell?srnd=premium[/link]
 
Democrats Are Too Affluent to Be Socialists[/h1] [b]Not only is the professional class voting Democratic, its also funding the party.[/b]

 

Democrats are relatively rich. According to a Brookings Institution [link=https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2019/09/10/america-has-two-economies-and-theyre-diverging-fast/]study[/link], the median household income in House districts held by Democrats rose from $54,000 in 2008 to $61,000 a decade later. In Republican districts, it declined from $55,000 to $53,000.

…

[b]The reliance on affluent professionals, meanwhile, raises questions about the power balance and direction of the Democratic coalition. [/b]As Thomas Edsall [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/opinion/democracy-inequality-thomas-piketty.html]asked[/link]: Can a party split between an upscale wing that is majority white and a heavily minority working class wing effectively advocate on behalf of a liberal-left economic agenda?
 
Trumps degradation of democracy and deadly failure in the face of pandemic has allowed Democrats to kick that quandary down the road. Because Trump and his enablers pose an acute [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-09-25/aoc-and-bernie-understand-this-election-is-about-saving-democracy?sref=EP6bV7CS]threat to democracy[/link], prosperity and rule of law, Democrats have had little difficulty pulling together to confront the crisis.
 
Indeed, they are funding their party as if life itself depends on it. Those funds can accelerate powerful changes already driven by demographics and pent-up demands for equality, justice and opportunity (or what Trump derisively calls socialism). The lopsided flow of money, however, will exert a powerful influence on the partys direction. [b]The Democratic appetite for change appears expansive. The contours of suburban comfort zones may yet prove more limited.[/b]

[/QUOTE]
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

Reality won’t change Republican minds. Republicans can’t do nuance. Not when a living wage is Socialism. 
 
We all know justice & equality are just other words for Socialism.

[btomba_77]

[link=https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/politics-podcast-why-bidens-lead-is-different/]https://fivethirtyeight.com/features…-is-different/[/link]

New 538 podcast talks about a potential 2021 Democratic agenda.

Currently Nate Silver’s model gives Dems about a 70% chance of winning all three of the House, Senate, and Presidency. So there is a critical caveat that is predicated on that 70% chance playing out. If not, the Dem agenda is dead for now.

That said, they had 3 broad categories of agenda items:

[b]Repair/Restore what Trump broke:[/b]
* Strengthen the ACA, maybe with a public option
* Repeal some/most of the Trump tax legislation
* Voting Rights/Access legislation
* Do a large Covid bill, perhaps with some “green jobs” tossed in.

[b]Structural:[/b]
* End the legislative filibuster
* DC/PR statehood (maybe but much less likely Navajo )
* Judicial expansion

[b]Long Term Democratic Major Legislative goals:[/b]
* GND/ Major Climate legislation
* Universal health care

A lot boils down to the margin in the Senate. If Dems are at 50 then only the first group is on the table because you won’t have more conservative/moderate Senate Dems on board. If the margin is more in the 52-53 range then DC/PR statehood and maybe even court expansion hit. (Interesting side bar: Barack Obama has a post-election book tour which all of the moderators felt might really move Democrats on the agenda …. if Barry O says to bust the filibuster and pack the courts then Dem opinion probably shifts quickly) . And then that last bucket of stuff only happens in the Biden Blue Wave scenario where Dems have like 55 seats and can lose moderate votes both in the House and Senate to push through big bills.

[Unknown Member]

I suggest

Healthcare first

Repeal trumps tax breaks for those making over 400K

Infrastructure deal

Then get to work on environment

[kaldridgewv2211]

The future of the Democratic Party needs to be one in which Nancy takes a back seat and lets some new leadership rise up. Her getting on TV wih Wolf Blitzser and doing that while I feed people line was enough.

[Unknown Member]

Id expect her to stay speaker for at least most of the next 2 years

Like her or not she pretty much opened Trump the past 2 years

[kayla.meyer_144]

Quote from DICOM_Dan

The future of the Democratic Party needs to be one in which Nancy takes a back seat and lets some new leadership rise up. Her getting on TV wih Wolf Blitzser and doing that while I feed people line was enough.

Yes, replace Nancy because she too is old.
 
Now. who can, not will but can replace her? And get things done keeping the Democratic cats herding together?
 
I think more highly of Nancy’s skills than Schumer’s. I’d like to see him replaced more than her.
 
 

[kaldridgewv2211]

I liked Tim Ryan last time his name came up.  I believe that she was his mentor.  He had a brief run at President.  He also won’t carry the stigma of elitist California type.

[btomba_77]

[link=https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/18/florida-democrats-meltdown-437113]Politico

[/link]
[h2]Im not a f—ing socialist: Florida Democrats are having a postelection meltdown[/h2] [b]The state party recorded one of the worst election performances in the country. Now comes an identity crisis.[/b]

 It wasnt just one bad cycle. For Democrats in Florida, Election Day 2020 was a tipping point in a long, painful buildup to irrelevancy.
 
After suffering crushing losses from the top of the ballot down, the state party now is mired in a civil war that could have profound consequences for future elections.

..

Even as Joe Biden heads to the White House, state Democrats know that President Donald Trump did more than just win in Florida. He tripled his 2016 margin and all but stripped Florida of its once-vaunted status as a swing state. His win, a landslide by state presidential standards, was built on record turnout and a Democratic implosion in Miami-Dade County, one of the bluest parts of the state.

[/QUOTE]
 

[btomba_77]

[b]Liberals Aim to Challenge Manchin, Sinema[/b][/h1]  
 
A trio of progressives who helped launch Alexandria Ocasio-Cortezs 2018 upset campaign are now setting their sights on Senate Democrats, [link=https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/02/manchin-sinema-challengers-464821]Politico[/link] reports.
 
West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin and Arizona Sen. Kyrsten Sinema who arent up for reelection until 2024 are the first Democrats on their target list.

 

[btomba_77]

[link=https://theintercept.com/2021/03/08/nevada-democratic-party-dsa/]The Intercept[/link]:  [b]ENTIRE STAFF OF NEVADA DEMOCRATIC PARTY QUITS AFTER DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST SLATE WON EVERY SEAT

Bernie Backers Took Over the Nevada Democratic Party. The Old Guard Walked Out.

[/b]

Judith Whitmer won her election on Saturday to become chair of the Nevada Democratic Party, she got an email from the partys executive director, Alana Mounce. The message from Mounce began with a note of congratulations, before getting to her main point.
 
She was quitting. So was every other employee. And so were all the consultants. And the staff would be taking severance checks with them, thank you very much.

On March 6, a coalition of progressive candidates backed by the local chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America took over the leadership of the Nevada Democratic Party, sweeping all five party leadership positions in a contested election that evening. Whitmer, who had been chair of the Clark County Democratic Party, was elected chair.
 
The establishment had prepared for the loss, having recently[link=https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/say-goodbye-to-the-most-effective-democratic-party-in-the-country] moved $450,000 out of the partys coffers[/link] and into the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committees account. The DSCC will put the money toward the 2022 reelection bid of Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto, a vulnerable first-term Democrat.

[link=https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/say-goodbye-to-the-most-effective-democratic-party-in-the-country]Jon Ralston[/link]: Say goodbye to the most effective Democratic Party in the country. 
 

[kaldridgewv2211]

The democrats as an organized party are horrible. Its either this or having 8 of your votes for $15 minimum wage go bad.

[btomba_77]

Quote from dergon

[link=https://theintercept.com/2021/03/08/nevada-democratic-party-dsa/]The Intercept[/link]:  [b]ENTIRE STAFF OF NEVADA DEMOCRATIC PARTY QUITS AFTER DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST SLATE WON EVERY SEAT

Bernie Backers Took Over the Nevada Democratic Party. The Old Guard Walked Out.
[/b]

 
and the short lived reign of the democratic socialists in NV is over
 
…
 
[link=https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/democratic-socialists-swept-power-nevada-judith-whitmer-rcna72905?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_np]https://www.nbcnews.com/p…05?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_np[/link]
 
[b] Democratic socialists swept out of power in Nevada[/b]
 
Nevada Democratic Party Chair Judith Whitmer faced heavy criticism from a number of key figures in the state party and lost support from some of her former allies.

_______________

Nevada Democrats have ousted a slate of democratic socialists who took over the state party two years ago, ending a troubled reign marked by divisions and infighting.  
 
Judith Whitmer was booted from her position as chair in a Saturday vote, with a new slate headed by Nevada Assemblywoman [link=https://www.leg.state.nv.us/App/Legislator/A/Assembly/Current/1]Daniele Munroe-Moreno[/link] assuming control of the party.
 

The results come after a tumultuous term under Whitmer, who repeatedly clashed with key figures in the party. Establishment Democrats charged that she[link=https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/nevada-democrats-implode-battle-party-control-judith-whitmer-rcna71880] had at times undermined her own party[/link], including Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto, who was in a close re-election race last cycle.
 

[btomba_77]

[link=https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/07/biden-build-back-better-bill-479522]https://www.politico.com/…ack-better-bill-479522[/link]

[h2]Biden wants to cement a governing majority. His Build Back Better bill is his plan to do it.[/h2] [b]It really could be definitional for our party for the next 50 years.

[/b]

Its a once-in-a-generation opportunity to remake the structure of the American workforce and potentially firm up an electoral realignment that was hastened during the Trump years. And, to the administrations delight, polling shows that voters suburban dwellers and women in particular are embracing not just those individual components of the bill, but the broader concept of the federal government stepping in to help with their problems.
 
This is a real opportunity to redefine what our economic profile is going to be like with an aspect of the building part and the caring part and really could be definitional for our party for the next 50 years, said Celinda Lake, a Democratic pollster and adviser to Bidens 2020 campaign.
 
Spurred by the pandemic, Lake said, the belief in government as a solution is here to stay for a while, and I think at least through 2022. But the other question for progressives and Democrats is how we solidify this as a permanent view of what the role of government is rather than just [intervening] during a crisis.

[/QUOTE]

related:

[link=https://politicalwire.com/2021/02/10/democrats-could-lose-their-majority-at-any-time/]Democrats Could Lose Their Majority at Any Time

[/link]

Its obvious President Joe Biden learned a big lesson from the early months of the Obama administration. In a fruitless search to get Republicans to sign on to a too-small economic stimulus bill and then later the health care reform effort the administration lost a lot of time.
 
But more importantly, they lost their filibuster-proof majority in the Senate.

…

With a 50-50 Senate today, Biden literally has no votes to spare. And in the middle of a deadly pandemic where one congressman and another congressman-elect have already died, its even more precarious.
 
Biden wants to go big on an economic relief package because the one he helped pass in 2009 was widely perceived as too small. But the other big lesson from those early months of the Obama administration is to go fast.

[/QUOTE]
 

[btomba_77]

Tony Blair writing about Labour … but a take-away for Dems.

(I tend to believe Biden is the only D who would have won 2020)

[h1][b]Progressive Politics On the Ropes[/b][/h1]  
[link=https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/05/tony-blair-without-total-change-labour-will-die]Tony Blair[/link]: Joe Bidens victory in the United States apart, progressive politics across the globe is badly placed: four election defeats for the UK Labour Party and no one betting against a fifth; the German SPD placed behind a moderate Green Party; the French Socialists, who won the presidency in 2012, now polling at 11 percent; the Italian left imploded and divided; the Spanish and Swedish socialists hanging on to power, but way below their earlier levels of support.
 
And truth be told, no sensible Democrat or democrat should overplay the Biden victory. He won against an incumbent like no other, considered by centre-ground voters to be uniquely strange and unacceptable in his behaviour. In the middle of the Covid-19 crisis, Donald Trumps actions appeared to have worsened the pandemic; and even then, Trump increased his number of votes in the 2020 presidential election from 2016, while the Republicans took seats in the House and probably only lost control of the Senate thanks to the bizarre post-election antics that ended in the storming of the US Capitol in Washington, DC on 6 January.
 
The Biden victory was a heavy reaction not so much against the policies as the comportment of Trump. And in Biden, the Democrats nominated possibly the only potential leader who could have won.
 

[clickpenguin_460]

You’re right about Biden probably being the only person that could have won.  You’re also right to compare the Dems to the disaster that is today’s Labour party.
 
The conclusion that should be drawn (which I think you know) is that Biden won because 1. he did not have Trump’s personality and 2. he was supposed to chill in the middle – aka not do a lot and keep moderate positions.
 
Biden has allowed the Leftists of the party dictate too much of his early policy and we are starting to see the red flags on that right now.  Biden of 10 years ago would not have allowed several of these things to happen in the same way.
 
1. Immigration
   – stopping the portions of the wall that were being built that left holes.  He should have just finished those segments and said “no new wall” which is sounds like he is reversing and doing now
   – never should have stopped the remain in mexico policy or the first safe country policy.  Those just make sense and made a big difference
 
2.  Economy
   – Too much $$.  Too much inflation.  Too many benefits to keep people not working.  Too much increased tax talk.  If this doesn’t change (I expect it will) then stagflation is looking likely
 
3. Energy
  – Cancelling keystone pipeline was just dumb.  They even admit pipelines are the best way to transport
  – Being energy independent is the best and removes us from the Middle east, keeps prices low, etc.
  – Transitioning to electric vehicles and moving toward natural gas and nuclear is good policy
 
4. Israel/palestinians
  – They are testing Israel and Biden.  Biden looks really bad here.  Not really any other way to say it after 4 years of peace and new treaties under Trump
 
 
We shall see how Biden continues to handle these issues.  I hope he findings his old self somewhere down through the dementia and tells the Lefties to suck it but who knows at this point.  If we continue on this path, Dems are going to be blown out in 2022.

[btomba_77]

[h1][b]What Democrats Dont Want to Hear[/b][/h1]  
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/08/opinion/democrats-david-shor-education-polarization.html]Ezra Klein[/link]: Heres the truly frightening thought for frustrated Democrats: This might be the high-water mark of power theyll have for the next decade.
 
Democrats are on the precipice of an era without any hope of a governing majority. The coming year, while they still control the House, the Senate and the White House, is their last, best chance to alter course. To pass a package of democracy reforms that makes voting fairer and easier. To offer statehood to Puerto Rico and Washington, D.C. To overhaul how the party talks and acts and thinks to win back the working-class voters white and nonwhite who have left them behind the electoral eight ball. If they fail, they will not get another chance. Not anytime soon.
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

This problem goes directly back to perception and “infiltration” and sabotage such as the White supremacist violently posing as a BLM supporter during those “violent” demonstrations.
 
[link=https://spokesman-recorder.com/2021/10/07/texas-white-extremist-infiltrated-george-floyd-protests/]https://spokesman-recorde…george-floyd-protests/[/link]
 
As Klein writes:
 

During the protests after the killing of George Floyd, Shor, who had few followers at the time, tweeted, Post-MLK-assassination race riots reduced Democratic vote share in surrounding counties by 2 percent, which was enough to tip the 1968 election to Nixon. [b]Nonviolent protests, he noted, tended to help Democrats electorally.[/b]

 
So the point is to have everyone believe all “Democratic” demonstrations are always violent in order to undermine any Democrat issues’ support like race and economic equality and addressing violent and criminal police against citizens, etc. Anything that is proposed to help all Americans can be turned in arguments by media to be for only certain groups. Think of the ACA and how it was only Obama’s plan for racial reparations.
 
Past Democratic complacency has given the minority party the weapon to change elections so that we run the real rick that we will continue to be ruled by the minority by 2 methods, the Electoral College for presidential elections and computer generated gerrymandering for all others that isolates the majority voters into small enclaves unable to break out of the minority control.
 
 

But its 2024 when Shors projected Senate Götterdämmerung really strikes. To see how bad the map is for Democrats, think back to 2018, when anti-Trump fury drove record turnout and handed the House gavel back to Nancy Pelosi. Senate Democrats saw the same huge surge of voters. [b]Nationally, they won about 18 million more votes than Senate Republicans and they still lost two seats.[/b] If 2024 is simply a normal year, in which Democrats win 51 percent of the two-party vote, Shors model projects a seven-seat loss, compared with where they are now.
 
[b]Sit with that. Senate Democrats could win 51 percent of the two-party vote in the next two elections and end up with only 43 seats in the Senate.[/b] 
 
This is the confrontation Shor is trying to force. The Senates design has long disadvantaged Democrats. Thats in part because the Senate overweights rural states and Democrats are a disproportionately urban coalition and in part because Republicans, in a bid for political advantage, added a [link=https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/when-adding-new-states-helped-republicans/598243/]flurry of states[/link] in 1889 and 1890 North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Washington, Idaho and Wyoming many of which largely vote Republican to this day.
 
This is why Shor believes Trump was good for the Republican Party, despite its losing the popular vote in 2016, the House in 2018 and the Senate and the presidency in 2020. Sure, maybe he underperforms the generic Republican by whatever, Shor said. But hes engineered a real and perhaps persistent bias in the Electoral College, and then when you get to the Senate, its so much worse. As he put it, Donald Trump enabled Republicans to win with a minority of the vote.
 

 
 

[kayla.meyer_144]

To further illustrate:
 
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/06/opinion/trump-voters-2020-election.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…ers-2020-election.html[/link]

[link=https://polsci.umass.edu/people/alexander-theodoridis]Alexander Theodoridis[/link], a political scientist at the University of Massachusetts, summed it up:
[blockquote] About 35 percent of Americans believed in April that Bidens victory was illegitimate, with another 6 percent saying they are not sure. What can we say about the Americans who do not think Bidens victory was legitimate? Compared to the overall voting-age population, they are disproportionately white, Republican, older, less educated, more conservative, and more religious (particularly more Protestant and more likely to describe themselves as born again).
[/blockquote] P.R.R.I. also tested agreement or disagreement with a view that drives [link=https://www.axios.com/white-replacement-theory-gains-ground-among-gop-b171e37d-3f27-43f2-bc25-a084c9fe7aad.html]replacement[/link] [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/18/technology/replacement-theory.html]theory[/link] Immigrants are invading our country and replacing our cultural and ethnic background and found that 60 percent of Republicans agreed, as do 55 percent of conservatives.
 
The Reuters/Ipsos data showed that among white Republicans, those without college degrees were far more likely to agree that the 2020 election was stolen from Donald Trump, at 69 percent, than white Republicans with college degrees, at a still astonishing 51 percent. The same survey data showed that the level of this belief remained consistently strong (60 percent plus) among Republicans of all ages living in rural, suburban or urban areas.
 
In their September 2021 [link=https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0256759]paper[/link], Exposure to authoritarian values leads to lower positive affect, higher negative affect, and higher meaning in life,

 

[satyanar]

One thing for sure Frumi. Nothing gets better if the Dems are unwilling to accept they control their own fate and as a result the fate of the country. There are plenty of moderates on both sides to counteract the extremes.

[btomba_77]

[link=https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/09/florida-democratic-chair-quits-00077135]Florida Democratic Party chair quits after disastrous midterms

[/link]

Manny Diaz, the [link=https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2021/01/09/florida-democrats-turn-to-former-miami-mayor-manny-diaz-to-resurrect-party-1354268]former Miami mayor who had pledged to rebuild the Florida Democratic Party[/link] after years of losses, abruptly announced his immediate resignation as party chair on Monday amid growing calls for his ouster.
 
Diazs departure came after Florida Democrats suffering some of their worst losses ever, including the re-election of Gov. Ron DeSantis by 19 points over Charlie Crist, the election of a supermajority in the Florida Legislature and the flipping of several counties including once-reliable blue Miami-Dade County.
 
Diaz, in a statement to Democrats Monday, said he was unable to carry out his plans to build a year-round operation that would carry the party forward, blaming unnamed Democrats and others. He also decried national groups for not providing more funding the state party.

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 [link=https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/24/democrats-departing-blue-dog-coalition-00079113]Politico

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[h2][b]Rebranding rift guts Blue Dog Dem ranks[/b][/h2] Nearly half the members of the influential centrist coalition are letting themselves out after a failed push for a name change designed for a new era.

Seven of the 15 members expected to join the Blue Dogs this year, including Reps. Abigail Spanberger (D-Va.) and Mikie Sherrill (D-N.J.), are departing after a heated disagreement over a potential name change for the moderate bloc. For now thats left the Blue Dogs with seven, all male members their smallest roster in nearly three decades of existence. One freshman member remains undecided.
 
At the core of some of the breakaway Blue Dogs demands was a rechristening as the Common Sense Coalition that, they argued, would have helped shed the groups reputation as a socially moderate, Southern boys club. Blue Dogs have long stood for fiscal responsibility and national security, issues with broad Democratic appeal, but some members felt the name had a negative connotation that kept their colleagues from joining. A majority of other members disagreed, saying they saw no reason to toss out a longstanding legacy.
 
Those tensions came to a head earlier this month as Blue Dog members met for a lengthy debate over the reboot that culminated in a secret-ballot vote to reject the new name, according to interviews with nearly a dozen people familiar with the situation, on both sides of the dispute. Shortly after that vote, Reps. Ed Case (D-Hawaii); David Scott (D-Ga.); Rep. Brad Schneider (D-Ill.); Lou Correa (D-Calif.), Spanberger and Sherrill all left the group.
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