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  • Direct Radiology vs vRad

    Posted by georgiajens on August 5, 2020 at 4:52 pm

    Any experience, thoughts or opinions on which company is better to work for?

    Unknown Member replied 3 years, 8 months ago 29 Members · 126 Replies
  • 126 Replies
  • katiemckee84_223

    Member
    August 6, 2020 at 4:38 pm

    don’t do iiiiiiiiit

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      August 6, 2020 at 7:13 pm

      V rad is universally considered bottom
      of the barrel. Never heard of direct radiology. Would carefully look at pay per RVU, how easily you can get out if you find something better, hours, complexity of cases. I have heard the v rad software keeps close tabs on which cases you take and your productivity. Some may find that creepy.

      • georgiajens

        Member
        August 6, 2020 at 9:15 pm

        I hear you.  But I’m not in it for the prestige or the highest salary.  Just want to make a decent living with an easy lifestyle.  Sick of commuting and going to the office.

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          August 6, 2020 at 10:20 pm

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          • cieminsjohn

            Member
            August 7, 2020 at 6:25 am

            tele money is about how much you can read in an hour and how many hours you do per month.   Have a friend who was PT with direct radiology (I believe) maybe still is.  He was cut back in March/April when things slowed down in favor of there full time rads. 

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              August 7, 2020 at 6:35 am

              Maybe look for a group that needs tele coverage? May be corporate but the pay and benefits could be better. V rad rates per case are abysmal. I think you have to read extremely fast to make even $1500 a shift. Rates approx $5 per x Ray, $30 CT AP, $15 ultrasound

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              August 7, 2020 at 6:35 am

              Maybe look for a group that needs tele coverage? May be corporate but the pay and benefits could be better. V rad rates per case are abysmal. I think you have to read extremely fast to make even $1500 a shift. Rates approx $5 per x Ray, $30 CT AP, $15 ultrasound

              • AcutelyObtuse

                Member
                August 7, 2020 at 11:34 am

                I know a group run by radiologists that pays $20 per CT, $10 per US, and $5 per plain film. And when you talk to them, they think those are good rates!!! We have killed our own specialty with this bull$hit.
                 

                Quote from irfellowship2020

                Maybe look for a group that needs tele coverage? May be corporate but the pay and benefits could be better. V rad rates per case are abysmal. I think you have to read extremely fast to make even $1500 a shift. Rates approx $5 per x Ray, $30 CT AP, $15 ultrasound

              • georgiajens

                Member
                August 7, 2020 at 6:53 pm

                Sure, not the highest rates.  But I did the calculations.  To earn about $200 an hour you have to read an equivalent of about 7 CT A/P per hour.  You won’t make a fortune but you don’t have to endure the headaches of being in a hospital catering to Hospitalists, ER docs, oncologists, etc.  I also calculated the time off and its pretty generous compared to what I’m used to.  And I’d only be working afternoon/evening, meaning all mornings off and whole weeks off.  I think if you did this for a private group, you’d almost be certainly in an overnight shift.
                 
                My current practice, I live only 8 miles away but it takes 40-45 min to get there, and its a practice with many prima donna patients which has given me headaches, esp with procedures.  I may make more but with more stress and frustration.  I know ppl in this forum have low opinion of telerad companies but like I said, I’m not looking for prestige or anyone’s approval.  I just want an easy life with no pressure to read fast or more, and the low salary which you guys bemoan is plenty for me.

                • Unknown Member

                  Deleted User
                  August 7, 2020 at 7:25 pm

                  At your old group were you a partner or an employee? Either way most likely it was a guaranteed base salary. Some days If you havent ever had to literally eat what you kill by reading cases fast, it is a psychological burden especially if you have a family.

                  • Unknown Member

                    Deleted User
                    August 7, 2020 at 7:28 pm

                    also I find 7 CTs an hour to be a lot. Plenty of complex cases out there to bite you in the ass lowering the hours productivity to less than $200…

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 7, 2020 at 7:37 pm

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                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 7, 2020 at 7:38 pm

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                  • georgiajens

                    Member
                    August 7, 2020 at 8:51 pm

                    The “eat what you kill” paradigm won’t be too much of a burden on me even if i make less than $200/hr (though I hear that most of those ER cases are almost normal or quite typical in disease entity).  I do have a family in a nice neighborhood, but otherwise, I live very modestly.  No expensive cars or any club membership.  Play on public sports facilities.  No expensive toys or other flashy expenditure.  My wife the same.  And my investment portfolio has done quite well which makes up most of my wealth anyway. So at this point money not the main issue for me.  Just to have a mostly stress free job with more time off.  But I understand the desire to want to maximize your earning potential to either save more or buy more stuff.

                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 7, 2020 at 8:53 pm

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                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 7, 2020 at 8:55 pm

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                    • Patrick

                      Member
                      August 7, 2020 at 11:43 pm

                      TheSLACman, you are making this thread sound like one those annoying comments on Facebook or newspaper articles: “I made $##### last month.  Make $####/hour from home.  Message me”.  It might be true, but my advice, don’t make decisions on outliers, especially if the focus is lifestyle.  But, I fell for YankeeDownunder, a few years back.
                       
                      Meant in jest to avoid any confusion.  
                       
                       

                    • reuven

                      Member
                      August 7, 2020 at 11:52 pm

                      Quote from Ipecac

                      The “eat what you kill” paradigm won’t be too much of a burden on me even if i make less than $200/hr (though I hear that most of those ER cases are almost normal or quite typical in disease entity).  I do have a family in a nice neighborhood, but otherwise, I live very modestly.  No expensive cars or any club membership.  Play on public sports facilities.  No expensive toys or other flashy expenditure.  My wife the same.  And my investment portfolio has done quite well which makes up most of my wealth anyway. So at this point money not the main issue for me.  Just to have a mostly stress free job with more time off.  But I understand the desire to want to maximize your earning potential to either save more or buy more stuff.

                      You’re not eating what you kill but about a 1/3 of what you kill and letting your corporate master eat the rest.  

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 8, 2020 at 12:01 am

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                    • kstepanovs_485

                      Member
                      October 5, 2020 at 10:38 am

                      Quote from TheSLACman

                      just offering some insight as to tele..

                      everyone on here is perpetuating that you make 20$ a ct and would be lucky to cross 200$/hour. that is simply not even close to true. 200$ an hour is extremely manageable for an average rad

                      I am all about lifestyle. I work 5am – 2pm, get to pick up my daughter every day from school, home every day for dinner, no evenings, I have workstations in two states so I get to see my parents and family whenever I want. its not a bad life and the money is good even if you read average. my advice to anyone thinking about doing tele: talk to someone before you go off these boards. 

                       
                      Hey, I’m a recent grad , doing a neuroradiology fellowship and looking at tele jobs to start so stumbled across this thread. I talked to a PP rads group about an employed tele position which doesn’t seem too bad, definitely better than all corporate gigs, but your gig sounds pretty good. Do you have any more information by any chance? Or is there a listing on ACR? Thanks for any insight you can provide. Appreciate all the help I can get since we’re never taught any of this in residency/fellowship.

                    • kstepanovs_485

                      Member
                      October 5, 2020 at 10:38 am

                      .

                    • mpezeshkirad_710

                      Member
                      August 8, 2020 at 12:10 am

                      Quote from JTG

                      You’re not eating what you kill but about a 1/3 of what you kill and letting your corporate master eat the rest.  

                      Agree.  For this reason I would never do such work.  People gloating about making X amount are only enriching the suits by that much more.  Not to mention much more in taxes for politicians to redistribute.  Only a fraction trickles down to the rads working sweatshop labor.

                    • gratianmiclaus_939

                      Member
                      August 8, 2020 at 7:30 am

                      Teach a man to fish, but the fish he catches arent his. They belong to the person paying him to fish, and if hes lucky, he might get paid enough to buy a few fish for himself

                    • georgiajens

                      Member
                      August 8, 2020 at 8:28 am

                      True.  But by the same logic I only killed maybe 1/5 or 1/10 or 1/20 of it.  I did not start this business giving me this opportunity or endure any startup costs, risks, or exert any effort to get the business going in its infancy.  I did not do any of the leg work to secure any of the hospital clients giving me this opportunity.  I did not pay for any of the licenses and credentials to be able to do the work.  This is not to mention the ongoing operating costs.  Thats probably only the tip of the iceberg of all the costs.  I only sit back and read cases coming my way that were already teed up for me.  
                       
                      Isn’t this the case for any employee of a company?  The owners get a hefty percentage of the profits but again that is their due right as having already done the work in creating the company. Should a cook see all the profits from the meals he creates at a restaurant?  That is, if I had started a company and hired people to work for me, I’d expect to see most of the profits, too.

                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 8, 2020 at 9:43 am

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                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 8, 2020 at 9:49 am

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                    • ljohnson_509

                      Member
                      August 8, 2020 at 10:13 am

                      Do you have to work so hard and feel drained? You can read 3 CTs an hour and make, 100k? I assume no one is pressuring you?

                      The QA must also be a constant annoyance? Does vrad threaten firings if your misses are above a certain threshold?

                      Can you tell vrad that you dont read say neuro mr or peds and still work there?

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 8, 2020 at 10:22 am

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                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 8, 2020 at 12:21 pm

                      Quote from TheSLACman

                      I dont get why so many pp rads think they take home what they read and no one else gets a cut.

                      Many pp groups split evenly which means the peds and nucs rads are taking home way more than they bring in and vice versa for the body/neuro/mri/mammo.

                      I have an idea at what the overhead is at my company and Im perfectly fine with my hourly rate, even if it means a chunk went to creating the system that allows me to earn that hourly.

                      The heads are good people and I dont feel like Im getting robbed even if I should get paid a bit more per case

                      I’m happy it works for you.
                      But when I read this I immediately thought of Uber; at first many drivers touting its benefits, until the juice was squeezed out of it, and it became oppressive. Usually that’s how it goes, unless you have a say in management.
                      Brace yourself.

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 8, 2020 at 7:03 pm

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                    • JohnnyFever

                      Member
                      August 8, 2020 at 7:29 pm

                      Theslacman sounds full of it. He’s been an attending for ONE MONTH!!!! He doesn’t even give FINAL READS!!

                      Not a reliable source

                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 8, 2020 at 7:35 pm

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                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 8, 2020 at 7:43 pm

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                    • JohnnyFever

                      Member
                      August 8, 2020 at 7:53 pm

                      You say you are on track to earn 7 figures for day time corporate telerad as a brand new graduate. Doing majority prelims.
                      During COVID, when most rads are getting a haircut. Suspicious

                      Either:
                      You are gods gift to radiology

                      You are dangerous, reading way too fast and missing a lot, destined for early termination and lawsuits

                      You are lying

                      You aren’t actually a radiologist, but some sort of troll

                      Corporate is reeling you in up front, only to snatch it away in the future

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 8, 2020 at 7:59 pm

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                    • mpezeshkirad_710

                      Member
                      August 8, 2020 at 8:27 pm

                      Quote from TheSLACman

                      27 shifts in July
                      10 hour shifts (I cut down a bit in August)

                      I read somewhat fast but not the fastest –

                      my qa showed some misses for sure but Im glad they were caught.

                      27 ten hour shifts in a month–working 90% of the days?  Yes, I guess one can make a lot of money this way.  A huge amount is going to corporate and governments, who are loving it.
                       
                      Some misses caught, some misses not caught–can this go on for long without consequences?
                       
                      I hate to pile on, but there are some things here that stand out.

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 8, 2020 at 8:52 pm

                      You will make a bad miss sooner or later. At the rate you say you are reading, most likely sooner. 1 CT every 6 minutes? I would not want you anywhere near any of my family or friends.

                      Also you are surely required to read x ray and US? Lower RVU per effort esp x Ray

                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 8, 2020 at 9:01 pm

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                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 8, 2020 at 9:02 pm

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                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 8, 2020 at 9:04 pm

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                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 8, 2020 at 9:24 pm

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                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 8, 2020 at 9:24 pm

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                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 8, 2020 at 9:27 pm

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                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 8, 2020 at 10:12 pm

                      Maybe this is possible. I have a few questions, though. How thorough are you in your reports? For example, on CT spine for trauma do you go level by level for DJD? (When i didn’t do this, I got QA’d/needed to addend reports when spine surgeons wanted more detail in the future.) On CT heads, are you QA’d for not mentioning something like a small remote infarct? It may be possible to hit your speed if you are very vague with incidental findings of no significance (for example, just saying diverticulitis for all diverticula, rather than describing where in the colon they are, or mild/moderate sinus disease, rather than saying mucous retention cyst in X sinus, or possibly neglecting these findings if they are not clinically relevant).
                      BTW I have heard some tele practices have cut CT head/spine to 0.7 wRVU each, so to hit $300/hr you would need 20 of these combos; if that is the only type of case you have to read, then it is possible. But what happens if you get a tedious CTA runoff with multiple grafts, steoses, etc in the mix? Are the cases preselected for you (is there a common list or an individual list with studies just for you?)or can you Cherrypick head CTs/spine CTs, etc? Also, do you have an efficient setup? I have heard the vRAD setup uses sort of toggle device and gaming mouse for window/level, etc, as well as some fancy headphones. I know VRad has some software where you only dictate positives, and a template is created. Do you have something like this? Or, do you possibly read CT AP by listing the findings and then having a blanket statement “liver, spleen, pancreas are normal.” Also, what other type of studies are you reading? I assume u are mostly reading ER studies (no outpt cancer f/u studies, etc.). Do you read a lot of MSK MRI(I don’t.) ? Maybe if you are extremely fast at MSK MR (I am not but have seen ppl who are) you could hit those numbers. Sorry for the typos, I am on my phone.

                    • drvitalr

                      Member
                      August 8, 2020 at 9:49 pm

                      OMG, it’s clear you are God’s gift…but you must realize you are the problem, not the solution.  As long as rads like you will read faster and harder, the rest of us are held to the lowest common denominator. 
                       
                      God bless for making 7 figures since medicine is all about the money these days, but we’re not flinging out burgers at mickey D’s and it is not great for the field

                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 8, 2020 at 9:52 pm

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                    • Unknown Member

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                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 8, 2020 at 9:57 pm

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                    • drvitalr

                      Member
                      August 8, 2020 at 10:06 pm

                      Fair, more than a little salty and maybe too much. 
                       
                      Point being, are you maximizing your expertise as a specialist or are you cranking out studies?  Too many of us are blinded by the $$ and forget we are highly trained physicians.  No fault of our own, the system has created this void for us.
                      We all have our time of being the ER monkey, but is that what your career will be??  If this is temporary, then more power to you.  Crank the studies, make bank and flee.  But realize, for every $77k month you have, some suit made $33k off your sweat for nothing.

                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 8, 2020 at 10:07 pm

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                    • JohnnyFever

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 5:40 am

                      Stimulant or mania? You decide

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 9, 2020 at 7:22 am

                      At first I thought SLACman was speaking from years of experience.
                      What he is offering is a case report; barely.
                      His assessment of working in tele is quite limited.
                      Let’s hear from him in a few years.
                      It will be interesting to follow.
                       
                       

                    • debra.paulk_16

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 8:48 am

                      Quote from boomer

                      At first I thought SLACman was speaking from years of experience.
                      What he is offering is a case report; barely.
                      His assessment of working in tele is quite limited.
                      Let’s hear from him in a few years.
                      It will be interesting to follow.

                      Agreed. But lets not be too down on him. It’s clear to me who he is working for and I’m not going to be down on him just because his choices are not what I would recommend or have made for myself (although if i’m right about who he is working for, then I do think he picked the best telerad service out there)
                       
                      Thanks to people like SLAC many private groups have avoided selling out/merging/…. Many smaller groups depend upon evening/overnight/daytime assistance to meet the demands of their contracts. Without telerad those practices would have sold out or merged long ago. I’m not saying smaller PP group are better then other practice types or visa-versa, but it’s nice to have diversity among rad work environments so people can find what fit’s their needs and we can see how patients might be best served. 
                       
                      As SLAC continues I’m sure he’ll learn some lesson and optimize his reading speed/style/… just like we all did. 

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 9, 2020 at 7:31 am

                      So you work 4a-2p and sleep 2p-9p?? When do you see your family?

                    • cmitchell_511

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 8:02 am

                      As someone 1 year out of fellowship, my opinion is you’re doing it wrong. Grinding from day 1 is both unsustainable and bad for patient care.
                       
                      You sound like you’re at the peak of the Dunning-Kruger curve.

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 9, 2020 at 8:26 am

                      You sound like you’re at the peak of the Dunning-Kruger curve. 
                      ^^ Exactly.
                      Inexperience loves to preach.
                       

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 9, 2020 at 8:42 am

                      Not sure how he measures a CT is it 1 unit per chest, abdomen and pelvis? Or is a CT an AP for example which is around 1.8 RVU?

                      If its 1 unit per chest abdomen and pelvis and 1 for head and c spine separately, then 10/h isnt as much as it may seem otherwise. Still the $$ he is stacking is incredibly high for tele, way above the mean so he is likely reading way too fast. Also one year out of fellowship?

                      I do know a Mednax/Envision type of corporate group wants around 8-8.5 RVU per hour. This is still not so easily attainable if you are IR. Also x rays have to be read which makes this more difficult to obtain.

                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 9, 2020 at 8:48 am

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                    • JohnnyFever

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 9:12 am

                      You might be hypomanic. Seriously

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 9, 2020 at 9:14 am

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                    • ranweiss

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 9:19 am

                      In defense of SLACMAN,
                       
                      I personally know a few telerads guys  (both corp and locums for PP) That make a LOT of money.
                       
                      If a ton of your studies are straightforward, and you’re a fast reader, it’s doable. Yes, you’ll lose 25-30% to your company, but that’s part of the gig.
                       
                      I would hardly call a 60 hour work week anywhere near manic. Plenty of other sub specialists out there that work 7-7 well into their 60’s. Not saying it’s fun, but doable. 

                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 9, 2020 at 9:28 am

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                      August 9, 2020 at 9:32 am

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                    • JohnnyFever

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 9:41 am

                      You respond to yourself a lot. Flight of ideas?

                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 9, 2020 at 9:43 am

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                    • afazio.uk_887

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 10:36 am

                      SLAC – hope you are formulating an exit strategy cause you will not last at this rate. I dont begrudge you for trying to make the $$ now while young, I did the same although it was easier to do back then. However, after paying off debt and investing a nest egg I slowed down significantly and I recommend you plan for the same. High volume will burn you out very quick, trust me – I was a go-getter balls to the wall type as well in my younger rad days also.

                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 9, 2020 at 11:00 am

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                    • debra.paulk_16

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 11:14 am

                      Quote from TheSLACman

                      I dont fully understand why everyone thinks I am going to crazy.

                      I am now working 9 hour shifts with only the first 6 hours of the shift being heavy.

                      I will agree 27, 10-hour shifts was a lot. So I cut down an hour per day. 

                      The lack of commute is extremely good for me. I commuted 4 hours daily as an r4 and 3 hours daily as a fellow. it was the worst thing ever. 

                      Other than that, its just that I work every other weekend. Not ideal but it is what it is. My wife makes me a nice lunch on the weekends and we make sure to get out of the house at 2pm and do something.  

                      Im working MUCH less than I did as a fellow and r4 (see previous posts on other threads) and have hired help for essentially all housework, groceries, packing lunches, making breakfast, dishes, dinner, etc. the only “work” I do is stuff related to my kid like bath time and serving dinner, which my wife and me do as a team. 

                      from 2pm – 9pm every day Im completely free. Been to the pool every day, work out, watch tv. I have always hated working evenings so I found a job ill never have to again. Ill never work evenings again. The day I have to work evenings is the day I leave tele

                      Just got back from CA where I worked at my parents house (separate workstation). It is very liberating being able to go back and forth knowing I can just work either place at my choosing.  

                      My average work week is 54 hours. That is very manageable for me especially because I dont work any evenings and there is no commute.

                      I have 8 weeks vaca, and If I want to take more ill get more. Many tele get 26 weeks so I have a good margin. 

                      Do rads reading this truly find this kind of job is unsustainable? I work less hours than just about every doc I know. My dad is interventional pain, 62 years old and spends more time seeing patients per week than im signed in reading cases. Even my wife is a psychiatrist and works more hours than me, although she’s still in training so thats probably why

                      ill follow up but I feel what im doing is in the realm of sustainability. 

                       
                      Who knows, only time will tell. I’d burn out just because I can’t “just” read films. I like setting up protocols, getting up and playing with needles once in awhile, … If it’s working for you, just keep it going always trying to do your best for patients. 
                       
                      Lets get this thread back on track. 

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 9, 2020 at 11:16 am

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                    • ruszja

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 12:07 pm

                      These telerad threads are good background on what I see when I read out overnight prelims in the morning.

                    • clickpenguin_460

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 12:08 pm

                      Quote from fw

                      These telerad threads are good background on what I see when I read out overnight prelims in the morning.

                       
                      Lol I spit up my drink.  So true.

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 9, 2020 at 5:12 pm

                      Some telerad guys are like players at the track/casino trying to beat the system. They are convinced they can do it. Others are desperate, I guess too.
                      The odds are just stacked against them.
                      I went into PP a long time ago to maximize my control. I have some sleazy partners, and some slackers too. But I might give up 3-4% of the margin because of that inefficiency. I can live with that. I have the opportunity to practice the way I see fit, in my specialty.
                      Look, these companies have rads jumping through hoops at their whim. It’s not a longterm career. It’s being an Uber driver looking for fares, and trying to beat the system as it progressively works again them. Don’t get it. 
                      They say a sucker is born every day. 
                       
                       
                       
                       

                    • ruszja

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 5:22 pm

                      Reminds me of the old ‘outpatientradsrules’ days.

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 9, 2020 at 5:34 pm

                      Reading cases at that pace requires massively more concentration than being a neurologist for example. Talking to patients, walking around the hospital, writing notes. Even cards do the same thing; interventional are not in the angio suite all day either. You cant compare rads to these other specialties.

                    • mpezeshkirad_710

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 5:39 pm

                      Quote from boomer

                      It’s being an Uber driver looking for fares, and trying to beat the system as it progressively works again them.   

                      I think your analogy is apt

                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 9, 2020 at 5:42 pm

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                    • JohnnyFever

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 5:57 pm

                      To the 10+ rads mentioned above, don’t get taken in by a glorified fellow

                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 9, 2020 at 6:00 pm

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                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 9, 2020 at 6:10 pm

                      Quote from TheSLACman

                      Suggest you see for yourself. Most the rads in here are miserable for a reason

                       
                      Yet, they could be even more miserable.

                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 9, 2020 at 6:11 pm

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                    • ljohnson_509

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 6:19 pm

                      Radiology is misery for good money still.

                      Telerad seems like greater misery for less money.

                    • cytek1

                      Member
                      November 11, 2020 at 2:03 pm

                      54 hours is still on the heavy side, and 8 weeks vacation is low, but not that outlandish. Guess it comes down to what youre making to determine whether Id say your job sucks or not.

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      November 11, 2020 at 2:06 pm

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                    • cmitchell_511

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 9:32 am

                      Quote from TheSLACman

                      Do most rads not work m-f and one weekend a month with 8 weeks of vaca?

                      Thats my setup with the addition of an extra weekend a month.

                      I work less than literally every IR doc I have ever heard of yet everyone seems like Im working 400 hours a month to hoard money at the expense of pt care. What a joke

                      Sounds like a bunch of salty rads out there

                       
                      No. Most rads do not average a weekend a month. Most rads definitely don’t average 2 weekends a month.
                       
                      I dunno what you think we’re being salty about. We’re all looking at your situation with varying degrees of perspective and hind site.
                       
                      Like I said, I’ve been an attending for 1 year. In that one year, there was a lot of growth and learning. I had misses I wouldn’t make now and also better recognize what my blind spots are.
                       
                      You 2 months into being an attending are not remotely close to fully formed. Yet you are liable for all the cases you read. Some of your stuff might be outpatient and you might not see your mistakes for 3-4 years.
                       
                      So yes, when I say you reading full blast right off the bat (plus an extra weekend a month) is a bad idea and probably bad for patient care, I mean it.

                    • debra.paulk_16

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 8:53 am

                      Quote from irfellowship2020

                      Not sure how he measures a CT is it 1 unit per chest, abdomen and pelvis? Or is a CT an AP for example which is around 1.8 RVU?

                      If its 1 unit per chest abdomen and pelvis and 1 for head and c spine separately, then 10/h isnt as much as it may seem otherwise. Still the $$ he is stacking is incredibly high for tele, way above the mean so he is likely reading way too fast. Also one year out of fellowship?

                      I do know a Mednax/Envision type of corporate group wants around 8-8.5 RVU per hour. This is still not so easily attainable if you are IR. Also x rays have to be read which makes this more difficult to obtain.

                       
                      His company created their own units based on the average amount of time it take to read the studies. The system has it’s flaws, but also has benefits over just using the wRVU. 

                    • leann2001nl

                      Member
                      November 16, 2020 at 11:06 am

                      Quote from TheSLACman

                      Many rads in pp are reading cases at this rate. Again there are many faster than me in the tele world

                      The pp neuro rads consistently reading 60+ mri a day in a 9 hour shift is faster than me reading 10 er ct (heads and spines do not take long) per hour. As a resident 10 ct from the er per hour was the norm, and our attendings would sign off that level almost every evening 5-10pm (50 ct 5-10pm). It is what it is, Im glad we have a robust internal qa system as well as feedback from our clients in the morning. This far Im doing ok. But yes Iv slowed down a bit

                       
                      so if you had a 12 hour shift, as a resident you full read 120 cts? 
                       
                      on top of x-ray US and MRI? give me a break 

                    • Unknown Member

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                      November 16, 2020 at 11:09 am

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                      November 16, 2020 at 11:10 am

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                    • leann2001nl

                      Member
                      November 16, 2020 at 11:15 am

                      what does read mean? as a resident, you fully dictated reports, talking about incidental adrenal nodules, etc for 50 ct over 5 hours, while also doing xray, MRI and US? and 30 was the standard? 
                       
                       
                       
                       

                    • leann2001nl

                      Member
                      November 16, 2020 at 11:18 am

                      preliming is a whole different ball game. if I can say ” diverticulitis, no free air no abscess” and move on with my life that takes a substantially less amount of time than describing the hemorrhagic renal cyst and the follow up for the cystic pancreatic lesion 

                    • Unknown Member

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                      November 16, 2020 at 11:18 am

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                    • Unknown Member

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                      November 16, 2020 at 11:19 am

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                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      November 16, 2020 at 11:37 am

                      Slac man please update us on your first lawsuit

                    • Unknown Member

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                      November 16, 2020 at 11:40 am

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                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 10, 2020 at 7:24 am

                       I love these anti-suit anti-corp etc comments. The same “real” radiology partner guys who f&%? over younger rads by paying them sh^t salaries and often screw them out of partnership or sell the company from underneath them while laughing all the way to the bank. At least you know exactly wtf you are dealing with with corps. Not some pyramid scheme or pseudo-partnership. That model is over and done

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 10, 2020 at 8:17 am

                      I would argue you do NOT know what you are getting with corporates. They can always screw you more.

                    • scandoc

                      Member
                      August 10, 2020 at 8:27 am

                      PP can screw you as hard as corps but PP usually dont have the legal resouces to really go after you and screw you hard I think. Right now I think PPs are just a bad deal unless short partnership or guaranteed pay out or void noncompete if practice sold

                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 10, 2020 at 8:30 am

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                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 10, 2020 at 11:17 am

                      Precisely either can screw you. My argument is that the playing field is a bit more well defined in a large corporate structure versus the “board” or senior partners of a private group making all of the rules in a PP group. I’ve worked in both so i am speaking from experience and direct observation of others

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 10, 2020 at 11:20 am

                      And yes the probability of negotiating severance is laughable… I’ve tried lol 

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      November 11, 2020 at 8:02 pm

                      There have been a couple threads about people not liking radiology and wanting to change specialties.  If my only option was to work for VRAD, I would do another specialty.  That is how bad Vrad is and it also tells you while you might enjoy a field, you may HATE a particular job.  Vrad pays you 1/3 what you would make with the same work in private practice…

                    • ljohnson_509

                      Member
                      November 11, 2020 at 8:07 pm

                      ^^. Vrad is prelims, at home, where you want to live and no interactions with others. Gotta pay for that.

                    • sarah.r.huntington

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 6:36 pm

                      Quote from TheSLACman

                      27 shifts in July
                      10 hour shifts (I cut down a bit in August)

                      I read somewhat fast but not the fastest –

                      my qa showed some misses for sure but Im glad they were caught.

                      Iv been working on slowing down a bit, too exhausting to power through

                      Been commenting on these boards since I was a resident. A few people on here know who i am.

                      Definitely a radiologist dm me and Ill tell you who I am lol

                      Heres a week m-f

                      $ 2,945.41
                      $ 2,826.42
                      $ 3,455.60
                      $ 2,898.14
                      $ 3,470.27

                      Its doable, dont forget I worked 270 hours in July, not sustainable – I agree but cutting down a bit still leaves very good earnings. Those who are considering tele, dont believe all the bs

                      Slow down man. It only takes 1 ‘unlucky’ miss on the right patient for it to cause massive interference in your life.
                       
                      Misses happen to all of us, but if you’re going at breakneck speeds for 27 days in a month, you are probably making unnecessary misses (ergo exposing yourself and the patient to unnecessary risk).

                    • consuldreugenio

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 8:19 pm

                      High volume telerads would be more sustainable if the shifts were daytime and the duration was 5 days. 7 nights straight of high volume reading sounds too brutal with mistakes guaranteed, especially at the end of the 7 days. This is every other weeks in most gigs (vrad even sneaks in extra shifts during some offshifts).
                       
                      SLAC has daytime shifts, which softens the blow. He is a very hard worker as noted on other posts. He may be able to keep up with it no doubt. 
                       
                      SLAC states level of protection by only giving prelims. This is sometimes true. However, with certain misses, the delay in the correct interpretation.  I’ve seen ruptured intracranial aneurysm miss needing NIR.  Active bleeded needing endoscopic management – poor outcome. Multiple M2, vert and basilar occlusions. Unstable spine fractures. Portal vein and SMV thrombosis, which resulted in bowel ischemia. These should be reported first read. 
                       
                      I frequently see prelims miss pelvic tumors, sub 5-mm Head/neck aneurysms, lymphadenopathy, bone mets,  head/neck or other tumors, soft tissue hematomas. Non or minimally displaced fractures. These can be missed on the prelim I suppose, as they aren’t urgent mostly. Still doesn’t look good.

                    • dragoncas

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 9:58 pm

                      I tend to agree that telerad volumes tend to be unsustainable and dangerous, but come on… This is a list of findings that even the most careful radiologists are going to miss occasionally. 
                       

                      Quote from Umichfan

                      SLAC states level of protection by only giving prelims. This is sometimes true. However, with certain misses, the delay in the correct interpretation.  I’ve seen ruptured intracranial aneurysm miss needing NIR.  Active bleeded needing endoscopic management – poor outcome. Multiple M2, vert and basilar occlusions. Unstable spine fractures. Portal vein and SMV thrombosis, which resulted in bowel ischemia. These should be reported first read. 

                      I frequently see prelims miss pelvic tumors, sub 5-mm Head/neck aneurysms, lymphadenopathy, bone mets,  head/neck or other tumors, soft tissue hematomas. Non or minimally displaced fractures. These can be missed on the prelim I suppose, as they aren’t urgent mostly. Still doesn’t look good.

                    • mpezeshkirad_710

                      Member
                      August 9, 2020 at 10:05 pm

                      I must confess I have probably overlooked a number of sub 5-mm aneurysms and nondisplaced or minimally displaced fractures.

                    • ruszja

                      Member
                      August 10, 2020 at 6:37 am

                      You work like an ER doc with two ex-wives and a good part of the money goes to the tax-man. I dont think 27 shifts is sustainable.

                    • Unknown Member

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                      August 10, 2020 at 6:39 am

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                      August 10, 2020 at 6:42 am

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          • leboyd1

            Member
            August 7, 2020 at 6:40 am

            I’ve worked for vRad and I think the reading platform and voice recognition software, etc is fantastic. The staff are great (or at least they were). The pay per study is not great – we all know that. That said, I can see going back in the future when I’m ready to slow down. For mid-career, I did not like how fast I had to read to generate a comparable salary to traditional practice and so didn’t last long full-time. 
             
            A former partner worked for DR, and I contacted them about a job in the past. The pay was basically identical to vRad. Many of the telerad firms pay just about the same, so I stuck with vRad. Pros to vRad would also include sheer size to ensure that you will always have stuff to do and more variety of shifts. When I worked for them there was no “big brother” – yes we had a tracker for the cases read, but that was more useful for me to know how much I would make that shift. Not once in three years did I have someone tell me I was reading too slow and I was not super fast by any means. From my former partners take on DR it was fine, but the promise of being rad owned and becoming a partner was not really true – the rad-owners still kept most of the bonus money, etc.. 
             
            So basically I’d just find out who offers the more attractive shifts based on the licenses you have. If you only have one license it will take a while to get up and running.

            • asevvala_18

              Member
              August 7, 2020 at 8:46 am

              Any information about STATRAD? They claim to pay the highest rates. 
               

              • ruszja

                Member
                August 7, 2020 at 8:49 am

                Direct Radiology vs. vRad
                 
                I would opt for ‘rusty nail through the scrotum’ instead.

                • qi_si1988

                  Member
                  August 7, 2020 at 8:56 am

                  Joining the “don’t do it” chorus, here…I did vRad because I had few other viable options for my situation, and I made it work for 7 years.
                   
                  The job-market improved, but they did not, and I moved on to much better situation…still reading telerad, but now as a remote member of a private group. MUCH better in every way I can imagine.
                   
                  PM me if you want to know more, but mine is not the only group that is doing this. Why work as a cog in a corporate entity that doesn’t give a damn about you when there are better options?

              • Unknown Member

                Deleted User
                November 16, 2020 at 10:17 am

                StatRad is great in my opinion because you are paid 100 percent of the studies that you read. Whereas, I heard other teleradiology firms may look higher, however in reality they are not because they do not give you the entire amount per study that you read.   StatRad is also radiologist owned which I find favorable.  

                • Unknown Member

                  Deleted User
                  November 16, 2020 at 10:40 am

                  How is the rad paid 100 percent? Of the professional fee? How does stat rad make any profit then? I smell a shill.

                  • Unknown Member

                    Deleted User
                    November 16, 2020 at 10:40 am

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                    • qi_si1988

                      Member
                      November 16, 2020 at 10:50 am

                      A history of 3 posts on AM, two of which hyping Statrad…yeah, I think this “100%” testimony should be taken with more than a few grains of salt.

  • prolaktin

    Member
    November 11, 2020 at 12:32 pm

    I hear StatRad pays a premium.