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  • Criminal Justice Reform.

    Posted by btomba_77 on July 31, 2015 at 5:05 am

    [url=http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/29/news/inmates-pell-grants-obama/]
    Obama to offer Pell grants to prisoners[/url][/h1]  
     
    The Obama administration will overturn a Clnton era “tough on crime” rule that restricted access to educational grants.
     
    Every dollar spent on education save $5 on future recidivism costs.
     
     
     
     

    btomba_77 replied 1 year, 4 months ago 16 Members · 150 Replies
  • 150 Replies
  • btomba_77

    Member
    July 31, 2015 at 5:06 am

    [link=http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33531314]
    Obama lays out criminal justice reform plan[/link]   
      

     
    President Barack Obama has called for sweeping reforms to the US criminal justice system including curbing the use of solitary confinement and voting rights for felons. He said lengthy mandatory minimum sentences should be reduced – or thrown out entirely.  “Mass incarceration makes our entire country worse off, and we need to do something about it,” he said. 
      

      
      
    Speaking to a gathering of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) in Philadelphia, Mr Obama discussed investments in education, alternatives to trials and prison job training programs. 
      
    Criminal justice reforms have been a subject of rare agreement between Republicans and Democrats in Congress.  He noted that African Americans and Latinos disproportionately make up most of the prison population.  On Monday Mr Obama commuted the sentences of 46 prisoners, many of whom were serving time for non-violent drug offences. 

     

    • kaldridgewv2211

      Member
      July 31, 2015 at 5:41 am

      If those Latinos are here illegally, I’m all for catapulting them back across the border.  We shouldn’t be paying to imprison them here, nor provide them educational grants.

      • ruszja

        Member
        July 31, 2015 at 6:27 am

        For profit colleges around the country are rejoicing. After the gravy train of GI bill funding runs out, the convict pell grants are the next big thing.

        • eyoab2011_711

          Member
          July 31, 2015 at 8:52 am

          So you want the govt to better regulate private businesses…and you want those convicted of crimes (or who served our country honorably for that matter) to have no means to improve themselves and become functioning members of society….duly noted

        • kayla.meyer_144

          Member
          July 31, 2015 at 9:03 am

          How is the GI Bill a bad thing? It provided a lot of educational benefits for returning & all GIs since WWII.
           
          Paying for education benefits through my taxes is perfectly fine by me. It’s called “public education” and the benefits of an educated public can’t be dismissed.

          • ruszja

            Member
            July 31, 2015 at 6:09 pm

            The GI bill is great, as a concept anyway. The problem is that much of it is piddled away on worthless online degrees. The same will happen to the prisoner education.
            If it helps to reduce recidivism, fine with me.

            • eyoab2011_711

              Member
              August 1, 2015 at 6:42 pm

              And yet Republicans complained when they tried to crack down on the use of Pell grants and the GI bill for online for profit diploma mills

  • btomba_77

    Member
    August 8, 2015 at 2:57 pm

    [link]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDVmldTurqk[/link]

    Jon Oliver looks at mandatory minimum sentencing on [i]Last Week Tonight[/i]

    • btomba_77

      Member
      September 15, 2015 at 2:23 pm

      John Oliver  does it again.
       
       [i]Last Week Tonight[/i] covers the overburden of public defenders and its effects on criminal justice–

      [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USkEzLuzmZ4[/url]

  • btomba_77

    Member
    October 1, 2015 at 11:30 am

    [url=[link=http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/255608-senators-roll-out-criminal-justice-reform-deal]http://thehill.com/blogs/…al-justice-reform-deal[/link]]Bipartisan Group of Senators roll out criminal justice reform bill[/url]

    The legislation includes some reductions in mandatory minimum sentences, including those for nonviolent drug offenders, while increasing mandatory minimum sentences in other areas such as interstate domestic violence.

    The group brings together tough-on-crime Republicans, including Grassley, and lawmakers who want mandatory minimums to be largely scaled back or done away with, such as Leahy and Lee.

    The bill also includes parts of the Cornyn-Whitehouse prison reform bill, The Corrections Act, that would boost programs aimed at reducing relapses into criminal behavior and offer prisoners early release if they complete the programs.

    ‘Bout time.  I hope something of value passes.

  • btomba_77

    Member
    November 2, 2015 at 4:35 am

    [url=http://www.npr.org/2015/11/02/452898470/supreme-court-takes-on-racial-discrimination-in-jury-selection]Supreme Court Takes On Racial Discrimination In Jury Selection[/url]

    NPR story this morning on upcoming SCOUTS case addressing racial bias in jury selection.  (audio up around 9 am US east)

    “Numerous studies demonstrate that prosecutors use peremptory strikes to remove black jurors at significantly higher rates than white jurors.”  Those are not the words of the defense in the case. They come from a group of highly regarded prosecutors, Republican and Democrat, conservative and liberal, who have filed a friend-of-the-court brief siding with Timothy Foster, who was convicted and sentenced to death in the killing of an elderly white woman in Georgia.

    It has been nearly 30 years since the Supreme Court sought to toughen the rules against racial discrimination in jury selection. But {the legal team of} Timothy Foster, who was convicted and sentenced to death in the killing of an elderly white woman in Georgia, argue that black jurors were systematically excluded from the jury at his trial in 1987, while judges at all levels looked the other way for nearly three decades thereafter.

    The state’s brief contends that the only reason prosecutors labelled the race of the prospective black jurors was to rebut the anticipated race discrimination claim by the defense.  No briefs have been filed in support of the state’s position in the case. But, {a} group of former state and federal prosecutors is urging the Supreme Court to invalidate Foster’s conviction because of “blatant prosecutorial misconduct.”

    • btomba_77

      Member
      June 29, 2016 at 4:07 am

      [url=http://www.npr.org/2016/06/29/483954157/as-adults-legally-smoke-pot-in-colorado-more-minority-kids-arrested-for-it]While possession now legal for adults, Racial disparities seen in juvenile marijuana arrests in Colorado[/url]

      Marijuana is legal in Colorado as long as you’re 21 or older. It’s still illegal for kids to possess, so juveniles are coming to dominate the marijuana arrests in Colorado. But another startling trend also has developed: Arrest rates have risen dramatically for young blacks and Latinos.

      A Colorado Health Department survey found there wasn’t a huge racial difference in who smokes pot. But the marijuana arrest rate for white 10- to 17-year-olds fell by nearly 10 percent from 2012 to 2014, while arrest rates for Latino and black youths respectively rose more than 20 percent and more than 50 percent.

      Brian Vicente, who led the marijuana legalization movement in Colorado, says that discrepancy needs to stop. “That is, I think, a large part of the reason Colorado voters passed legalization,” Vicente says. “They’re tired of the sort of racist legacy of the drug war.”

      • ruszja

        Member
        June 29, 2016 at 5:08 am

        The joy of selective quotes. There are several explanations for a racial discrepancy that don’t require racism.

        [i] Keith Humphreys, who studies drug policy at Stanford, says Jackson’s explanation for the youth arrests mostly rings true.

        “Police do patrol more in neighborhoods of color, and they also get more calls to respond in neighborhoods of color,” he says. And when police show up and find kids illegally in possession of marijuana, they’re obligated to do something about it.[/i]

  • btomba_77

    Member
    June 30, 2016 at 5:20 am

    [url=http://politicsbreaking.com/sanders-push-plan-ban-private-companies-running-prisons/]Bernie Sanders to introduce bill ending private prisons[/url]

    Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) will unveil a plan Thursday to ban privately run jails and prisons, which he says have a perverse incentive to increase the number of incarcerated people in the country.

    Under the proposal by the Democratic presidential hopeful, the federal government would have three years to end its practice of using private companies to keep people behind bars. The ban would also apply to state and local governments, which have increasingly turned to private contractors in a bid to save money.  It runs counter to the best interests of our country, Sanders said in an interview Wednesday. You should not be making a profit off of putting people in prison.

    Sanderss Justice Is Not For Sale Act, which he plans to introduce as legislation in Congress, also includes several provisions intended to dramatically reduce the number of immigrants who are held in detention facilities while awaiting court hearings on their legal status.

    • kaldridgewv2211

      Member
      June 30, 2016 at 1:48 pm

      Seems like there’s some good and bad.  I don’t think imprisoning people should be for profit, however, the for profits probably did a good job of keeping cost down.

      • btomba_77

        Member
        August 21, 2016 at 5:54 pm

        [url=http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2016/0821/DOJ-Stop-jailing-people-just-because-they-can-t-afford-bail-video]DOJ opposes fixed bail costs that imprison the poor[/url]

        Holding a defendant in jail simply because they cant afford a fixed bail amount is unconstitutional, the Justice Department said in a brief it filed Thursday in a Georgia lawsuit.

        “Bail practices that incarcerate indigent individuals before trial solely because of their inability to pay for their release violate the Fourteenth Amendment,” the department said in an amicus brief, referring to the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution.

        The friend-of-the-court brief marks the first time the Justice Department has submitted a legal opinion in a federal court on bail systems in state and local courts. It also is the most direct action by the Obama administration to push states to reform court practices it has said discriminates against poorer defendants. Those defendants tend to be black, Latino, or high school dropouts, as well as those with mental illness or substance abuse problems.

        • kaldridgewv2211

          Member
          August 22, 2016 at 5:39 am

          They’re also ending the use of for profit prisons.  Believe they came out with that last week.

      • kayla.meyer_144

        Member
        August 22, 2016 at 7:43 am

        Quote from DICOM_Dan

        Seems like there’s some good and bad.  I don’t think imprisoning people should be for profit, however, the for profits probably did a good job of keeping cost down.

        There is no magic. The way “for profits” keep down costs is through labor costs, they hire less and pay less. They are not more efficient and are generally less efficient.

    • ruszja

      Member
      August 22, 2016 at 7:56 am

      Quote from dergon

      [url=http://politicsbreaking.com/sanders-push-plan-ban-private-companies-running-prisons/]Bernie Sanders to introduce bill ending private prisons[/url]

      Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) will unveil a plan Thursday to ban privately run jails and prisons, which he says have a perverse incentive to increase the number of incarcerated people in the country.

      The prison companies don’t determine the length of incarceration, a judge does. Barring the occasional case of a judge receiving kickbacks (as it happened in PA a couple of years ago), there is no feedback loop between the prison corporation and sentencing.

      Otoh, I have observed locally that the expansion of the county jail from 8 cells in the courthouse to 56 in a freestanding facility caused the average census to go from 7 to 55 (followed by demands from the sheriff to finish the buildout of the second tier of the jail with another 40 cells). ‘build it and they will come’ at work. Some of this was due to ICE contract detainees, some due to longer sentences from the circuit judge now that room was available to jail repeat DUIs and wife beaters.

  • btomba_77

    Member
    August 22, 2016 at 8:05 am

    Private prisons lobby aggressively against sentencing reform and for harsher sentences.
     
    Between 2003 and 2010, Corrections Corporation of America spent over $14 million on lobbying efforts.   
     
    Since 2002, CCA and GEO have together spent over $31 million on lobbying the federal government, and an additional $14 million on campaign contributions.
     
     
    (“GEO Group & Corrections Corp of America. [link=https://prisondivest.com/private-prison-industry-industria-de-prisiones-privadas/lobbying/Opensecrets.org]Opensecrets.org[/link]; lobbying profiles of CCA and GEO. 2012. Web. Accessed Oct. 2013.)
     
    The companies have also been aggressive in pushing for mandatory detention in immigration cases.   
     
     
     
    There is absolutely a feedback loop to policy. A loop that needs to be broken.

    • btomba_77

      Member
      August 22, 2016 at 8:13 am

      [link]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pz3syET3DY[/link]

    • ruszja

      Member
      August 22, 2016 at 8:24 am

      Quote from dergon

      Private prisons lobby aggressively against sentencing reform and for harsher sentences.

      Between 2003 and 2010, Corrections Corporation of America spent over $14 million on lobbying efforts.   

      Since 2002, CCA and GEO have together spent over $31 million on lobbying the federal government, and an additional $14 million on campaign contributions.

      (“GEO Group & Corrections Corp of America. [link=https://prisondivest.com/private-prison-industry-industria-de-prisiones-privadas/lobbying/Opensecrets.org]Opensecrets.org[/link]; lobbying profiles of CCA and GEO. 2012. Web. Accessed Oct. 2013.)

      The companies have also been aggressive in pushing for mandatory detention in immigration cases.   

      There is absolutely a feedback loop to policy. A loop that needs to be broken.

      Mandatory minimum laws date back to the 60s and really came into use in the 80s. For the most part they pre-date private prison corporations and their lobbying efforts. We have longer sentences because that’s what it takes to keep the citizenry safe and that is why they demanded reform. The period of ‘mass incarceration’ has also seen an unprecedented drop in violent crime. We send people to prison because it works.

      • kayla.meyer_144

        Member
        August 22, 2016 at 8:37 am

        The business model is for more and harsher sentencing. Dergon is correct, a feedback loop that needs to be broken. It does not serve taxpayers or the community and even those who have broken the laws.
         
        Some things absolutely do not belong to the private market as their incentives are all wrong & prisons are one of them.
         
        As for harsher sentencing, the Rockefeller laws for example have shown that mandatory sentencing and harsher sentencing and living conditions do not protect the public. It is all emotional solutions serving no one except the profiteers.

        • kayla.meyer_144

          Member
          August 23, 2016 at 2:03 am

          On argument that private solutions are often not the best over public ones, there is the related topic of schools, public vs charter. John Oliver covers charter schools as a solution also.
           
          [link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_htSPGAY7I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_htSPGAY7I[/link]
           
          I love this guy, an ex-pat Brit who cuts through all the BS of our policies and beliefs.
           
          The point is this belief in the private system is ALWAYS better than public workers and solutions is pure sh1te.
           
           

  • btomba_77

    Member
    October 11, 2016 at 5:08 am

    [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/20/us/politics/supreme-court-to-hear-case-on-juror-racial-bias.html]US Supreme Courthears case on racial bias in jury deliberations[/url]  : [i]Pena-Rodriguez v. Colorado[/i]

    The juror, identified in court papers as H. C., was a former law enforcement officer. After the trial was over, two other jurors submitted sworn statements describing what he had said during deliberations. He said that where he used to patrol, nine times out of 10 Mexican men were guilty of being aggressive toward women and young girls, one juror recalled. In the end, the jury deadlocked on the most serious charge, a felony, but convicted the defendant, Miguel Angel Peña Rodriguez, of three misdemeanors. He was sentenced to two years probation.

    Next month, the Supreme Court will consider whether Mr. Peña Rodriguez can challenge his conviction based on H. C.s statements. That will require the justices to choose between keeping jury deliberations secret and sustaining the Sixth Amendments promise of an impartial jury.

    In Mr. Peña Rodriguezs case, the Colorado Supreme Court resolved that tension in favor of secrecy. By a 4-to-3 vote, it said that protecting the secrecy of jury deliberations is of paramount importance in our justice system. In dissent, Justice Monica M. Márquez wrote that racial bias is detestable in any context, but in our criminal justice system it is especially pernicious. Jury secrecy is important, she said, but it cannot trump a defendants opportunity to vindicate his fundamental constitutional right to an impartial jury untainted by the influence of racial bias.

    [url=http://www.scotusblog.com/2016/10/argument-preview-justices-to-consider-racial-bias-in-jury-deliberations/]SCOTUSBLOG argument preview here[/url]

    The specific question in Pena-Rodriguezs case is the constitutionality of a state rule that bars a defendant from introducing evidence that a juror was racially biased. In 2007, Pena-Rodriguez was accused of assaulting two teenage sisters at a Colorado racetrack. He was convicted of three misdemeanors: one count of unlawful sexual assault and two counts of harassment. During a private discussion after the trial, two jurors told Pena-Rodriguezs attorneys that one juror, a former police officer, had been biased against both Pena-Rodriguez and the witness who provided him with an alibi because they were both Hispanic. The two jurors then swore out affidavits indicating that the other juror had stated, for example, that Pena-Rodriguez must be guilty because hes Mexican, and Mexican men take whatever they want. He also said, the jurors indicated, that Mexican men had a bravado that caused them to believe they could do whatever they want with women.


    A ruling in its favor, the state continues, would be consistent with the courts earlier rulings that rejected challenges to similar no impeachment rules in the face of serious juror misconduct or bias that violated the Sixth Amendment. And the same safeguards on which the justices relied in upholding the no impeachment rules in these earlier cases will protect against racial bias by jurors as well, without exposing the jurys internal deliberations. For example, attorneys or judges (and sometimes both) can question potential jurors a process known as voir dire. Information about jurors and their potential biases may be readily accessible through social media, the state notes, while staff at the courthouse can monitor jurors for misconduct or bias during the trial. And jurors can report the improper racial comments of fellow jurors and have done so in many past cases.

    For his part, Pena-Rodriguez begins by challenging the states contention that its interests outweigh his right to have an impartial jury decide his fate. He suggests that the secrecy of the jury room is not and has never been inviolate. To the contrary, he contends, courts in more than 20 other jurisdictions would be allowed to consider the juror affidavits alleging racial bias in his case. And they have done so for many years without experiencing any of the negative side effects that the state alleges would follow if he were to prevail.  But the far more important point, Pena-Rodriguez argues, is that any such state interests must yield to his constitutional right to have an impartial jury decide his fate. The jury, he reminds the court, is the gatekeeper in determining whether the state will take away a defendants freedom or even his life. The Constitution, he says, cannot tolerate reliance on racial stereotypes during jury deliberations in any form, any more than it would allow judges to make their decisions based on racial bias. To do so, he concludes, would undermine not simply his own constitutional rights, but also the publics respect for the rule of law.  

    • btomba_77

      Member
      May 12, 2017 at 10:30 am

      [link=http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2017/images/05/12/ag.memo.on.department.charging.and.sentencing.policy.pdf]http://i2.cdn.turner.com/….sentencing.policy.pdf[/link]
       
      Trump re-opens the “war on Drugs” bigly.
       
      Jeff Sessions sends a memo to all federal prosecutors  telling them to prosecute drug crimes to the maximum possible charge.

      • btomba_77

        Member
        June 3, 2020 at 10:07 am

        [link=https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/500922-markey-harris-booker-to-introduce-resolution-calling-for-elimination-of][b]Markey, Harris, Booker to introduce resolution calling for elimination of qualified immunity[/b][/link]

        Law enforcement relies on qualified immunity to shield officers from accountability for instances of police brutality and excessive force, Markey tweeted Wednesday. In our culture of systemic racism, it is one of the foremost tools of oppression. Qualified immunity must be immediately eliminated.

        We must dismantle the oppressive tools of abusers in law enforcement like qualified immunity, he added. Police officers are murdering black and brown Americans in our streets without any accountability. We must act NOW.

        Markey added that he would introduce the resolution with Sens. [link=https://thehill.com/people/cory-booker]Cory Booker[/link] (D-N.J.) and [link=https://thehill.com/people/kamala-harris]Kamala Harris[/link] (D-Calif.).

        The doctrine of qualified immunity provides legal protection for government officials pertaining to actions taken during official duties.
        The doctrine has in recent years been increasingly used in cases involving police use of force, and criminal justice reform advocates have warned that it shields police from accountability when accused of misconduct.
         
        Its supposed to be harder to hold someone criminally liable than civilly liable, but is it? If you unknowingly commit a crime and the government wants to put you in prison for it, you cant use your ignorance of the law as a defense, Emma Andersson, a senior attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union’s Criminal Law Reform Project, [link=https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police/supreme-court-gives-police-green-light-shoot-first-and]wrote[/link] in 2018.
         

        • suman

          Member
          June 3, 2020 at 10:38 am

          Amash also doing something similar in the House: [link=https://thehill.com/homenews/house/500611-amash-readying-legislation-allowing-victims-to-sue-officers]https://thehill.com/homenews/house/500611-amash-readying-legislation-allowing-victims-to-sue-officers[/link]

          • btomba_77

            Member
            June 4, 2020 at 3:18 am

            I thought the LEO pushback against proposed reforms would wait until after the riots in the street were done …

            [link=https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/04/police-groups-joe-biden-300222]Police groups break with Biden[/link]

            Bidens call for more national policing reforms and oversight in the wake of the death of George Floyd and the perception that he hasnt shown enough solidarity with law enforcement amid the ensuing nationwide protests and unrest have created a fissure with law enforcement groups, leaving many who once supported him frustrated by what they regard as political posturing by their one-time ally.

            Clearly, hes made a lot of changes the way candidates do during the primary process, but he kept moving left and fell off the deep end, said Bill Johnson, executive director of the National Association of Police Organizations, the umbrella organization for Police Benevolent Association chapters.

            For Joe Biden, police are shaking their heads because he used to be a stand-up guy who backed law enforcement, Johnson said. But it seems in his old age, for whatever reason, hes writing a sad final chapter when it comes to supporting law enforcement.

            Though many police tend to lean to the right politically, the criticism from the National Association of Police Organizations is new. NAPO endorsed Barack Obama in 2008 and 2012 because of Bidens presence on the ticket, Johnson said.

            But the Obama-Biden reelection in 2012 marked a watershed political year in the relationship between law enforcement and the Democratic Party.

            More than eight months before Obamas re-election, the Black Lives Matter movement began in response to the shooting death of a black Florida teenager, Trayvon Martin, by a self-appointed neighborhood watchman. Black Lives Matter made police brutality, systemic racism and the 1994 crime bill top issues for progressives in the 2016 and 2020 Democratic presidential primaries.

            While under fire from the left, police increasingly became more Republican, said Jim Pasco, executive director of the Fraternal Order of Police and former in-house lobbyist for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives who worked closely with Biden on the crime bill and other legislation.

            There are two evolutions in two directions. On law-and-order issues, Biden was right of center: the 94 crime bill, the Brady Law and enhanced penalties. But as time has gone by, his positions have moderated, moderated, moderated to where we are today, where he would not be considered a law-and-order guy in the sense that law enforcement sees it, Pasco said.

            Also, as time has gone by, the law-enforcement community especially the rank and file has become far more conservative. Today, the FOP and other labor groups are far-less open to addressing gun-control issues, things that traditionally they supported and that Biden worked very closely and successfully with them on.
            [/QUOTE]

            • btomba_77

              Member
              June 5, 2020 at 12:55 pm

              Buffalo cops choose the wrong side …

              [link=https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w…in-response-to]https://thehill.com/homen…ate-w…in-response-to[/link]
              57 Buffalo officers resign from Emergency Response Team in response to officers suspension
              The entire Buffalo Police Department Emergency Response Team has resigned after the department suspended two officers without pay when a video surfaced showing them pushing over a 75-year-old protestor.

              Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz announced the 57-member teams resignation at a press conference Friday.

              “If they resigned, I’m exceptionally disappointed by it because it indicates to me that they did not see anything wrong with the actions last night,” Poloncarz said after being asked about the ERT Team resigning.

              • kayla.meyer_144

                Member
                June 5, 2020 at 2:31 pm

                We need more resignations of this sort around the country apparently since these officers see no problem with how the police act against the public. We need police who will serve the community not view the community as war combatants.

              • ruszja

                Member
                June 5, 2020 at 5:05 pm

                Quote from dergon

                Buffalo cops choose the wrong side …

                [link=https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w…in-response-to]https://thehill.com/homen…ate-w…in-response-to[/link]
                57 Buffalo officers resign from Emergency Response Team in response to officers suspension
                The entire Buffalo Police Department Emergency Response Team has resigned after the department suspended two officers without pay when a video surfaced showing them pushing over a 75-year-old protestor.

                Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz announced the 57-member teams resignation at a press conference Friday.

                “If they resigned, I’m exceptionally disappointed by it because it indicates to me that they did not see anything wrong with the actions last night,” Poloncarz said after being asked about the ERT Team resigning.

                That’s like Congress critters resigning from a committee assignment. Inconsequential as their paycheck keeps coming. I wish they put their money where their mouths are and resigned from the PD alltogether.

                • btomba_77

                  Member
                  June 6, 2020 at 1:03 pm

                  [link=https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/06/draft-democratic-proposal-seeks-big-changes-to-policing-304619][b]Draft Democratic proposal seeks Major Policing Reforms[/b]

                  [/link]

                  A sweeping new police reform bill being drafted by House and Senate Democrats would ban chokeholds, limit qualified immunity for police officers, create a national misconduct registry, end the use of no-knock warrants in drug cases and make lynching a federal crime among other dramatic changes, according to an outline being circulated on Capitol Hill.
                   
                  The Justice in Policing Act of 2020 is sponsored on the House side by Rep. Karen Bass (D-Calif.), chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus, and Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler (D-N.Y.), and Sens. Cory Booker (D-N.J.) and Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) on the Senate side. Harris is among the front runners to become the Democratic vice presidential nominee this year.

                  The most controversial proposals would revise federal statutes covering when police officers can be charged with using excessive force, and whether they can be sued for such behavior.
                   
                  Current federal law states that police officers have to willfully deprive a person of their constitutional rights in order to be charged with wrongdoing, according to the Justice Departments website.
                  Democrats want to revise the federal standard from willful to knowingly or with reckless disregard, as well as altering the language covering when such illegal acts are found to have resulted in someones death.
                   
                  In addition, Democrats want to limit the qualified immunity for police officers to enable individuals to recover damages when law enforcement officers violate their constitutional rights, according to the outline.
                  [/QUOTE]
                   

  • btomba_77

    Member
    June 7, 2020 at 2:57 am

    [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/us/police-unions-minneapolis-kroll.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&fbclid=IwAR18ZYoDcrALbgXZ2Tku7cZwAX8h_h6RmAJSUpBu-Dw3edPfLO5rKBs24is]https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/us/police-unions-minneapolis-kroll.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&fbclid=IwAR18ZYoDcrALbgXZ2Tku7cZwAX8h_h6RmAJSUpBu-Dw3edPfLO5rKBs24is

    [/link]A good read worth reading:

    How Police Unions Became Such Powerful Opponents to Reform Efforts[/h1] [b]Half a decade after a spate of officer-involved deaths inspired widespread protest, many police unions are digging in to defend members.[/b]

    Over the past five years, as demands for reform have mounted in the aftermath of police violence in cities like Ferguson, Mo., Baltimore and now Minneapolis, police unions have emerged as one of the most significant roadblocks to change. The greater the political pressure for reform, the more defiant the unions often are in resisting it with few city officials, including liberal leaders, able to overcome their opposition.
     
    They aggressively protect the rights of members accused of misconduct, often in arbitration hearings that they have battled to keep behind closed doors. And they have also been remarkably effective at fending off broader change, using their political clout and influence to derail efforts to increase accountability.

    In other instances, unions have not resisted reforms outright, but have made them difficult to put in place. Federal intervention is often one of the few reliable ways of reforming police departments. But in Cleveland, the union helped slow the adoption of reforms mandated by [link=https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/crt/legacy/2015/05/27/cleveland_agreement_5-26-15.pdf]a federal consent decree[/link], according to Jonathan Smith, a former U.S. Justice Department official who oversaw the governments investigation of policing practices there.
     
    Mr. Smith said union officials had signaled to rank-and-file officers that the changes should not be taken seriously, such as a requirement that they report and investigate instances in which they pointed a gun. I heard this in lots of departments, Mr. Smith said. Wait it out. Do the minimum you have to do. He said he believed that the reforms have since taken hold.
     
    Steve Loomis, the Cleveland police union president at the time of the consent decree, said he and his colleagues saw some of the mandated rules as counterproductive.
     
    Every time a kid points a gun, he has to do a use-of-force investigation, Mr. Loomis said of his younger colleagues. Now guys arent pointing their guns when they should be pointing their guns.

    As critics of the police get louder and more mainstream, union members have elected more aggressive leaders. In Minneapolis in 2015, Mr. Kroll defeated the unions longtime president by a [link=https://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-police-union-elects-new-president/302049331/]nearly two-to-one margin[/link] after the city installed a police chief intent on reform.
     
    I believe Bob Kroll was elected out of fear, said Janeé Harteau, the police chief at the time, adding that Mr. Krolls message to officers was: We are the only ones that support you. Your community doesnt support you. Your police chief is trying to get you fired.

    I struggle to know if they have gotten more extreme, or if the world has changed and they havent, Mr. Fletcher, the city councilman, said of the union. Either way, they are profoundly misaligned with the moment.

    [/QUOTE]

    Steve Loomis… what an effing tool
     

    • btomba_77

      Member
      June 7, 2020 at 5:07 am

      [link=https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/05/870414038/dallas-police-adopts-duty-to-intervene-policy-to-prevent-abuse]https://www.npr.org/sections/live-up…-prevent-abuse[/link]
      [h1]Dallas Police Adopts ‘Duty To Intervene’ Policy To Prevent Abuse[/h1]  

      • btomba_77

        Member
        June 8, 2020 at 3:32 am

        Minneapolis city council has the votes to disband the police department.
         
        This is going to be a very interesting experiment on a number of points.
         
        Can a municipality successfully dismantle a police department without losing law & order?
         
        Can disbanding lead to real reform and fundamental change in the unions? (Can they decertify the police union while they disband and start over?)
         
        How will the local population view the actions?
         
        How will it play in national politics?
         
        Will these type of local actions make it more or less likely that federal law enforcement reform efforts succeed?

        • kaldridgewv2211

          Member
          June 8, 2020 at 7:04 am

          Quote from dergon

          Minneapolis city council has the votes to disband the police department.

          This is going to be a very interesting experiment on a number of points.

          Can a municipality successfully dismantle a police department without losing law & order?

          Can disbanding lead to real reform and fundamental change in the unions? (Can they decertify the police union while they disband and start over?)

          How will the local population view the actions?

          How will it play in national politics?

          Will these type of local actions make it more or less likely that federal law enforcement reform efforts succeed?

          It’s disbanding the police and creating a public safety force/whatever they called it.  So essentially the police under a different name.
           
           

        • ruszja

          Member
          June 8, 2020 at 7:23 am

          Quote from dergon

          Minneapolis city council has the votes to disband the police department.

          This is going to be a very interesting experiment on a number of points.

          Can a municipality successfully dismantle a police department without losing law & order?

           
          The city of Minneapolis is contained in Hennepin county. I dont believe it is considered an ‘indepenendent city’ in the sense that county jurisdiction ends at the city-line. Both the state and the elected sheriff would be in a position to step in if the city council fails at their job.
           
          I have yet to see anything that would justify dissolving the agency. Its a city police department with all the problems that tends to bring with it. The agency reports to the mayor and eventually the council itself, if they can’t come up with any better plan to reform the department than to burn it down, it just tells you how capable they are at running a city.

          • alyaa.rifaie_129

            Member
            June 8, 2020 at 7:32 am

            Minneapolis crime has resulted in the city being one of worst US cities. This includes not only violent crimes but also property crimes. I can’t even imagine what the council is thinking and reports I have seen is not one of them that has said they will support it has given any definitive plans. 

            • ruszja

              Member
              June 8, 2020 at 9:23 am

              Quote from Ixrayu

              Minneapolis crime has resulted in the city being one of worst US cities. This includes not only violent crimes but also property crimes. I can’t even imagine what the council is thinking and reports I have seen is not one of them that has said they will support it has given any definitive plans. 

               
              ‘one of the worst’ ? I dont even think its in the top 20 for major cities. It used to be pretty bad at one point, but in recent years murders are actually reported one by one rather than in a summary fashion.  Its like 7/100k right now for homicides, that’s pretty decent.

              • alyaa.rifaie_129

                Member
                June 8, 2020 at 11:29 am

                [b]CBS News[/b] [i][b]Most Violent Cities in America[/b][/i] in 2016 Minneapolis was 23 just ahead of Chicago which was 24. In 2016 the murder rate is higher in Chicago but in Minneapolis overall other violent crimes contributed to it being ahead of Chicago. Rapes were double the rate compared to Chicago and robberies were 4x the rate.  
                 
                In 2017 according to CBS it moved to 19[sup]Th[/sup] w a violent crime rate in Minneapolis at 1,101 per 100,000 residents.
                 
                According to neighborhoodscout.com:
                 
                [i]when you compare Minneapolis to other communities of similar population, the Minneapolis crime rate (violent and property crimes combined) is quite a bit higher than average. Regardless of how Minneapolis does relative to all communities in America of all sizes, when NeighborhoodScout compared it to communities of similar population size, its crime rate per thousand residents stands out as higher than mostAccording to NeighborhoodScout’s analysis of FBI reported crime data, your chance of becoming a victim of one of these crimes in Minneapolis is 1 in 123. In Minneapolis, your chance of becoming a victim of a property crime is 1 in 24 and stolen car 1 in 191.[/i]
                [i]
                [/i]
                According to Fox CH 9 in Minneapolis in 2018 the crime did drop but in 2019 downtown area saw an increase in crime and the murder rate was the 3[sup]rd[/sup] highest of the decade w reports more downtown businesses were increasing security and the mayor was requesting 14 new patrol officers.  
                 
                I didn’t find any comparison info for 2018 or 2019 If you see data that is different I would be interested.

                • ruszja

                  Member
                  June 8, 2020 at 6:55 pm

                  You really had to dig deep with the googelator until you found a reference that had Minnie in the top 20.
                   
                   
                  To go with the mantra of the covid threads ‘you can’t fake deaths’:
                   
                  2018 homicide rates (most recent federal numbers):
                   
                  St Louis, MO 60.9/100k
                  Baltimore, MD 51/100k
                  Memphis, TN 28.6/100k
                  Pittsburgh, PA 18.6/100k
                  .
                  .
                  .
                  .
                  Minneapolis, MN 7.2/100k
                   
                   
                   
                  ‘Those are rookie numbers’
                   
                   
                   
                   
                  I have lived in a few of these places, and minor violent crime and property crime numbers are near meaningless. [i]’Yeah, buddy, just because your apartment was broken into doesn’t mean we come out. If you have insurance and you need a report, come down to the precinct and file a report’.[/i]  Same with a assault report I tried to file [i]’You really wanna file a report for this ?’ [/i]Cops in those places have bigger fish to fry than some third degree assault or aggravated harrassment case. I did get the assault report filed and the perpetrator had to go to court, but unless you persist, there is no crime to be reported. Minnies crime numbers are higher because they have a functioning police department and not the high levels of interpersonal violence that other cities suffer from.
                   

                  • alyaa.rifaie_129

                    Member
                    June 8, 2020 at 8:53 pm

                    No I didn’t have to dig deep at  all. CBS story comes right up when you search.

                    Appears we are using different numbers. If you only want to use homicide as a measure yes Minneapolis is low. The CBS data used violent crimes not just homicide. Big difference between the two.
                     
                    Since the post was about defunding police any responsible  government official planning to determine policing needs would look at all crime, esp violent crimes,   and not just one, which is one reason the government collects the data.

                    • btomba_77

                      Member
                      June 9, 2020 at 3:32 am

                      John Oliver did his entire 30 minute show on law enforcement.
                       
                       
                      really good viewing
                       
                      [link]https://youtu.be/HI6srCfEWVE[/link]

                    • btomba_77

                      Member
                      June 9, 2020 at 8:36 am

                      Even Bernie knows that “defund” is bad messaging:
                       
                      Sanders: Do I think we should not have police departments in America? No, I dont. Theres no city in the world that does not have police departments. What you need areI didnt call for more money for police departments. I called for police departments that have well-educated, well-trained, well-paid professionals. And, too often around this country right now, you have police officers who take the job at very low payment, dont have much education, dont have much trainingand I want to change that.

                      I think we want to redefine what police departments do, give them the support they need to make their jobs better defined. So I do believe that we need well-trained, well-educated, and well-paid professionals in police departments. Anyone who thinks that we should abolish all police departments in America, I dont agree.

                    • heenadevk1119_462

                      Member
                      June 11, 2020 at 9:18 am

                      Quote from dergon

                      John Oliver did his entire 30 minute show on law enforcement.

                      really good viewing

                      [link=https://youtu.be/HI6srCfEWVE]https://youtu.be/HI6srCfEWVE[/link]

                       
                      Let me guess, he doesn’t talk about FBI statistics on black crime. Yawn.

                    • ruszja

                      Member
                      June 11, 2020 at 2:08 pm

                      Still puzzling how a black officer arresting a black suspect turned into a case about  ‘systemic racism’.

                    • kayla.meyer_144

                      Member
                      June 12, 2020 at 7:23 am

                      Multiple layers as to why bad cops cannot be fired. Multiple examples in the past couple of years of outright negligent behavior.
                       
                      [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/06/12/i-used-be-police-chief-this-is-why-its-so-hard-fire-bad-cops/]https://www.washingtonpos…so-hard-fire-bad-cops/[/link]

                      As I saw in Florida, an officer accused of wrongdoing is interviewed only at the end of the investigation. State law guarantees him, and his lawyer, an opportunity to review every bit of evidence every witness statement, any video, all the physical evidence before he talks to internal affairs. This enables the officer to cast his actions in the best possible light even to lie about what happened, once he knows the evidence will not disprove the lie. In subsequent arbitration, this becomes a critical tactical advantage.

                       

                    • btomba_77

                      Member
                      June 12, 2020 at 11:42 am

                      [link=https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/502407-cellphones-havent-stopped-cops-from-lying-only-courts-can-do-that]Cellphones haven’t stopped cops from lying only courts can do that

                      [/link]

                      A 75-year old man was [link=https://buffalonews.com/2020/06/05/spokesman-for-mayor-and-police-apologizes-for-saying-protester-tripped-and-fell/]injured when he tripped and fell.[/link] That was the scenario the Buffalo police department released to the public before it knew that there was [link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFeewU0HhNE]a video showing two officers shoving the old man[/link] to the ground and then walking over him while blood poured out of his head.
                       
                      Many express shock that police officers would misrepresent even lie with such impunity. Those people naively ask what would happen if there wasnt a video of the whole affair. Criminal practitioners know exactly what would happen because, sadly, its what has been happening in courtrooms around the country every day for years. Too many officers are known to lie under oath, and there are judges and prosecutors who let them get away with it. This dirty secret is a true epidemic in the criminal justice system; its called testilying, and it has been around a long time.

                      In the George Floyd case, [link=https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.startribune.com%2Fmpls-police-still-haven-t-explained-misinformation-after-floyd-s-death%2F570970152%2F&data=02%7C01%7Ckwalter%40buffnews.com%7C7fb4fb16ace940e73aeb08d80cc6b611%7C58e1e377c42b4bde81b137cdd1cf59c7%7C0%7C0%7C637273394900010674&sdata=Oglh5eDgQkalp3Hif4Cw1luhnHH1fU2H7KGNHGXuGPQ%3D&reserved=0]police misrepresented what happened before realizing that there was a video that had gone viral[/link]. If officers were willing to misrepresent the circumstances of someones death, imagine how often it occurs in the ordinary police encounter. And there is simply no question that the lying disproportionately affects minorities.
                      So, what should be done? [b]The first answer is painfully obvious but until now has rarely happened: Hold police officers accountable when they lie by prosecuting them and by allowing them to be sued[/b]. Police officers are almost never prosecuted. Even rarer is a successful civil suit, because under a current legal doctrine called qualified immunity, its almost impossible to sue a police officer and win.

                      The second answer is less obvious, but just as important because there isnt always going to be a cellphone video to expose the lie: Appoint fewer prosecutors as judges. We need judges who are more skeptical even when there isnt a video.

                      Cellphones are finally showing the public what prosecutors, judges, and defense lawyers have known about the criminal justice system for a long time.
                       
                      Now we need courts to step up.
                       
                      [/QUOTE]
                       

                    • stlmchenry_510

                      Member
                      June 12, 2020 at 6:17 pm

                      Gotta say thisone of my acquaintances is a retired NYC sergeant. Hes received numerous accolades throughout his career which are well-deserved. He was a main 9/11 responder in NYC pulling bodies out of the pile. When others are referring to people like him as pigs and killers it makes me so sad. People like him and other law enforcement officers risk their lives for complete strangers like you and I on a daily basis, and the total disrespect for them right now makes me so sad. Many of these officers are everyday heroes. I dont deny theres issues, many issues, going on right now, but please think about what Ive said here. Cops need to be helped right now, not to be attacked. We all have to look out for one another and respect one another.

                    • stlmchenry_510

                      Member
                      June 12, 2020 at 6:18 pm

                      Gotta say thisone of my acquaintances is a retired NYC sergeant. Hes received numerous accolades throughout his career which are well-deserved. He was a main 9/11 responder in NYC pulling bodies out of the pile. When others are referring to people like him as pigs and killers its not good. People like him and other law enforcement officers risk their lives for complete strangers like you and I on a daily basis, and the total disrespect for them right now makes me so sad. Many of these officers are everyday heroes. I dont deny theres issues, many issues, going on right now, but please think about what Ive said here. Cops need to be helped right now, not to be attacked. We all have to look out for one another and respect one another.

                    • stlmchenry_510

                      Member
                      June 12, 2020 at 6:55 pm

                      Alsowhat Im saying you already know, but these arent the (mostly) peaceful protests of the 60s. Theres an element of violence and unpredictable chaos to these demonstrations that Ive personally seen and has made me scared-I dont want to be around them. Most people protesting are getting the point across with a sign or a chant, but the looting, stealing, threats and violence is another scarily unpredictable element and we need to protect our cities from this. Many struggling small businesses just opened to the rude awakening of their business being burned or a brick being thrown through the window. We need to stop the looting and the violence.

                    • heenadevk1119_462

                      Member
                      June 13, 2020 at 8:34 am

                      Reform? Tell people to stop committing crimes. If you want to group people, we all know who is committing an overwhelming majority of the crimes, so start with them. You can’t reform anything without telling the truth about it – but apparently the truth is not something most want to deal with. Go figure.

                    • kayla.meyer_144

                      Member
                      June 14, 2020 at 5:12 am

                      Has looting continued?
                       
                      American policing is out of control.
                       
                      Camden, NJ is an example of improving policing. It fired everyone & had everyone re-apply for jobs. While not perfect, Camden has improved.
                       
                      [link=http://newjersey.news12.com/story/42223723/camden-provides-example-of-how-dissolving-a-police-force-can-improve-policing]http://newjersey.news12.c…e-can-improve-policing[/link]
                       
                      [link=https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/13/magazine/police-reform.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage]https://www.nytimes.com/i…es&pgtype=Homepage[/link]
                      [b] [/b]

                      [b]J. Scott Thomson:[/b] The Supreme Court standard allows for a lot of situations that should never develop. Think about the mentally ill individual who refuses to drop a knife when a police officer tells him to. The law as the Supreme Court defines it allows the officer to advance on him and then shoot him not because someone is necessarily in danger but because the person didnt comply with the officers verbal commands. But why advance in the first place if its not necessary? 
                       
                      [b]Thomson:[/b] In 2019, when I was chief of the Camden police force, we adopted [link=https://www.policingproject.org/camden]a use-of-force policy[/link] with the help of Barry Friedman, a law professor at New York University, and [link=https://www.policingproject.org/]the Policing Project he started there[/link]. The policy mandates that the police de-escalate a conflict, use force only as a last resort, intervene to stop excessive force and report violations of law and policy by other officers.
                       
                      [b]Bazelon:[/b] I can see why thats a starting point, but Eric Garner was killed on Staten Island in 2014 by a police officer who used a chokehold that was [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/16/nyregion/eric-garner-case-death-daniel-pantaleo.html]banned by the New York Police Department more than two decades earlier[/link]. And Minneapolis had a policy in place that required officers to intervene if they saw an officer use excessive force, but the three who were with Chauvin who were much more junior than he was didnt step in to save George Floyd. What else does it take to prevent more of these deaths?
                       
                      [b]Thomson:[/b] Within a Police Department, culture eats policy for breakfast. You can have a perfectly worded policy, but its meaningless if it just exists on paper.

                       
                       

                    • heenadevk1119_462

                      Member
                      June 14, 2020 at 8:01 am

                      Camden, lol, you can’t make this stuff up from Frumi. I trained there at one point. I’m sure Frumi lives in the middle of it (lol)

                    • btomba_77

                      Member
                      June 14, 2020 at 9:06 am

                      [link=https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/502658-booker-says-gop-senator-has-told-him-qualified-immunity-is-on-the]Booker says GOP senator has told him qualified immunity is ‘on the table’ in Senate police reform bill[/link]

                    • btomba_77

                      Member
                      June 22, 2020 at 9:54 am

                      This is a good idea:

                      [link=https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/police-reform-model-after-uniform-code-military-justice/?fbclid=IwAR0-Cb4ZPLMwtLeTmwKrwd0SRHXjONuHLpU01xSjP2XTbh7K762RoBYveGU]https://www.nationalrevie…xSjP2XTbh7K762RoBYveGU[/link]

                      Its Time for a Uniform Code of Police Justice:

                      While current legislative efforts at police reform are mostly aimed at ending qualified immunity, such legislation, if ultimately passed, would only make it easier for victims to obtain monetary damages in a lawsuit against a police officer. It would do nothing to hold police officers criminally accountable for abusive conduct.

                      In order to remedy this shortcoming, Congress should adopt a Uniform Code of Police Justice (UCPJ) modeled after the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), which currently applies to U.S. military personnel. Such a code would recognize the unique role that police officers play in our society by holding them criminally accountable for misconduct in the same way that military personnel can be held criminally accountable. Broadly speaking, a UCPJ would achieve this in two ways: (1) by adopting laws from the UCMJ, such as those covering conduct unbecoming an officer and dereliction of duty, that would place heightened legal obligations on officers in the performance of their duties; and (2) by more clearly defining what constitutes a justifiable use of force in the same way that the militarys rules of engagement are clearly defined. Indeed, violations of the militarys rules of engagement are criminally actionable under the UCMJ.

                    • btomba_77

                      Member
                      June 23, 2020 at 7:57 am

                      [link=http://rss.cnn.com/~r/rss/cnn_allpolitics/~3/3DDjXBeI848/index.html]Senate Democrats: GOP policing bill isn’t ‘salvageable'[/link]

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      June 23, 2020 at 9:20 am

                      If you actually loved black people, you wouldn’t lie to them. Or us.
                       
                      Systemic sexism must be real since 97% of murderers in jail are male.

                    • kayla.meyer_144

                      Member
                      June 24, 2020 at 5:19 am

                      Laws to protect the guilty – the police.
                       
                      [link=https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/24/nyregion/new-jersey-police.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…new-jersey-police.html[/link]
                       

                      He left one department after failing to meet its standards. At another, he racked up disciplinary infractions. He was fired from a third, yet succeeded in getting hired at another.
                       
                      he was at his [link=https://camdencountypros.org/woodlynne-officer-charged-in-use-of-force-incident/]ninth[/link] police department, and had a history of troubling social media posts and a pattern of arrests that resulted in the injury of the suspect. He succeeded in getting hired in part because New Jersey remains one of only five states that cannot revoke a police officers accreditation over misconduct. It also has no central database tracking police malfeasance and, until recently, had [link=https://www.nj.gov/oag/excellence/docs/2019-5_Internal_Affairs_Directive.pdf]stringent rules[/link] preventing the disclosure of disciplinary records between agencies.
                       
                      This month, the white officer was [link=https://camdencountypros.org/woodlynne-officer-charged-in-use-of-force-incident/]charged with assault[/link] for pepper-spraying a group of black youths after a complaint that they were loitering, but only after [link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w8YhDdULWM]cellphone footage[/link] captured by one of them was uploaded to YouTube. A look back over the young officers career; a review of police records; and interviews with more than a dozen law enforcement officials, witnesses and community leaders indicate that he had a history of interactions that policing experts say should have raised red flags.
                       
                      In jumping from job to job, Officer Dubiel benefited from rules pushed by powerful police unions that until [link=https://www.nj.gov/oag/excellence/docs/2019-5_Internal_Affairs_Directive.pdf]recently[/link] made it difficult to flag worrisome behavior to future employers. By the time his record might have otherwise raised concerns, he was applying to jobs at small, resource-poor departments that had difficulty retaining officers.

                       
                       

                    • clickpenguin_460

                      Member
                      June 24, 2020 at 6:48 am

                      Systemic sexism.  I love it.  Lol. 
                       
                      So, people are going to stop saying there’s systemic racism once all of these reforms are in place right?  ha….
                       
                       

                    • ruszja

                      Member
                      June 24, 2020 at 7:12 am

                      Quote from dergon

                      This is a good idea:

                      [link=https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/police-reform-model-after-uniform-code-military-justice/?fbclid=IwAR0-Cb4ZPLMwtLeTmwKrwd0SRHXjONuHLpU01xSjP2XTbh7K762RoBYveGU]https://www.nationalrevie…xSjP2XTbh7K762RoBYveGU[/link]

                      Its Time for a Uniform Code of Police Justice:

                       
                      Under what constitutional authority are they proposing to pass such a uniform law that reaches into every court and every sheriffs department in the country ?
                       

                    • kaldridgewv2211

                      Member
                      June 24, 2020 at 9:33 am

                      supremacy clause.

  • btomba_77

    Member
    June 8, 2020 at 4:12 am

    John Oliver: “If police are trying to convince the public theyre not guilty of displaying excessive force, its probably *not* a good idea to repeatedly display excessive force on national television”

    [link=https://deadline.com/2020/06/last-week-tonight-with-john-oliver-george-floyd-protests-police-reform-black-lives-matter-1202953155/]https://deadline.com/2020/06/last-week-tonight-with-john-oliver-george-floyd-protests-police-reform-black-lives-matter-1202953155/

    [/link]
    [h1]Last Week Tonight: John Oliver On How Policing Is Entangled With White Supremacy, Reforming The System And Defunding The Police[/h1]  

  • btomba_77

    Member
    June 8, 2020 at 4:38 am

    [b]Last Stand for Law and Order Republicans?[/b][/h1] [b]
    [/b]
     
    [link=https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/08/last-stand-law-and-order-republicans-306333]Tim Alberta[/link]: Its a loaded phrase, one that politicians in both parties have invoked for decades with great success to project a certain virility to the electorate. It has recently taken on even harsher connotations in the context of Trumps Twitter usage (10 times in just the last week) and the accompanying sentiments (threats of unleashing vicious dogs on rioters, and promises of, when the looting starts, the shooting starts.)
     
    But it has long carried a cautionary subtext: Dont dare challenge the integrity of a justice system predicated on punishing wrongdoers, the harsher the better. Over time, this has meant fewer rehabilitative doors opened and more retributive cells slammed shut. It has meant refusing to acknowledge that anything is fundamentally amiss with the system itself; that disparities and discrimination are not the same thing, that isolated incidents of police misconduct are just that, no matter their regularity or similarities.

     

  • btomba_77

    Member
    June 9, 2020 at 2:34 pm

    [link=https://thehill.com/homenews/house/501924-house-expected-to-reconvene-earlier-than-expected-to-take-up-police-reform]House to reconvene earlier than planned to take up police reform legislation[/link]

    • btomba_77

      Member
      June 10, 2020 at 4:07 am

      [h1][link=https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/501968-senate-gop-shifts-on-police-reform]Senate GOP shifts on police reform[/link][/h1]  
      Senate Republicans are signaling a sharp shift on police reform, raising the chances that federal legislation could actually clear Congress and reach [link=https://thehill.com/people/donald-trump]President Trump[/link]s desk.
       
      Just a week ago, it seemed likely that a legislative package would pass the House but run into a dam in the Senate, where Republicans seemed more focused on retaining their majority and bolstering an economy tanked by the coronavirus pandemic.
      Yet the dark political clouds hovering over the White House and the Senates GOP majority coupled with a dramatic swing in polling showing a majority of Americans believe African Americans are the victims of excessive force by police have changed the political winds.
       

      • btomba_77

        Member
        June 10, 2020 at 4:21 pm

        [link=https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/502179-senate-at-logjam-over-changing-qualified-immunity-for-police]Senate at logjam over changing ‘qualified immunity’ for police[/link]

        • btomba_77

          Member
          June 11, 2020 at 4:57 am

          [b][i]Democrats Stiff-Arm GOPs Cosmetic Police Reforms[/i][/b][/h1]  
           
           
          [link=https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/11/democrats-police-reform-311310]Politico[/link]: The early divide suggests a partisan deadlock is quite possible despite a surge in support for reform after the killing of George Floyd by police in Minnesota. President Trump is preparing executive actions to curb police misconduct and is likely to back Scotts bill. But Democrats have major sway over what is doable in Congress, with control of the House and an effective veto in the Senate with the power of the filibuster.
           
          While Democrats are under pressure from their base to deliver, they also may decide against settling for a watered-down version of their priorities. Democrats are also staring at an election season that could give them both the Senate and the White House and with those prizes would come the possibility of advancing more sweeping reform.

           

  • btomba_77

    Member
    June 24, 2020 at 9:54 am

    [b]Senate Police Reform Bill Stalls[/b][/h1]  
     
     
    Senate Republicans police reform bill failed to gain enough votes to advance the measure in a procedural vote Wednesday, [link=https://www.axios.com/senate-republican-police-reform-bill-vote-fails-5f218c77-d821-44f4-a392-14ef77c4ba59.html?stream=politics&utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=alerts_politics]Axios[/link] reports.
    It highlights the extent of their split with Democrats, who have blasted the GOP bill as not salvageable for failing to properly address what they believe are fundamental issues, like the banning of police chokeholds.
    The vote was 55 to 45. The bill needed 60 votes to proceed.

     

    • Unknown Member

      Deleted User
      June 24, 2020 at 10:31 am

      [link=https://www.foxnews.com/politics/senate-gop-police-reform-bill-fails]https://www.foxnews.com/politics/senate-gop-police-reform-bill-fails[/link]
       
      A [link=https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcconnell-dems-police-reform]Republican-authored police reform bill[/link] failed in a Senate test vote Wednesday after Democrats opposed the bill on the basis it did not go far enough  sparking a furious war of words on the floor and marking an apparent impasse just weeks after George Floyd’s death led to calls for new legislation.
       

      The procedural vote on whether to start debate was 55-45; it needed 60 votes in order to proceed. Republicans had 53 votes, but not enough Democrats joined them.
       
      This effectively freezes police reform in Congress for now, even if the House approves its own measure on Thursday.
       
       
       

      • clickpenguin_460

        Member
        June 24, 2020 at 11:39 am

        Police reform goes the way of immigration, healthcare, etc.  A couple of more failed tries and then we won’t hear about it again for years.

        • Unknown Member

          Deleted User
          June 24, 2020 at 11:54 am

          I suspect the movement is fizzling fast. Protestors overreached, CHOP is an abysmal failure, shootings and protests dramatically increasing in major cities. Police unable to intervene, and the public facing the mob themselves.

          The politicians have extracted most of what they can by this point.

          Reform can be saved. Perhaps Trump will intervene.

          • clickpenguin_460

            Member
            June 24, 2020 at 12:08 pm

            Odds are nothing will happen at this point.  One or two rogue cities may try something extreme.

            • Unknown Member

              Deleted User
              June 24, 2020 at 1:04 pm

              CF,

              Snippets from WSJ editorial today:

              De­moc­rats are in­creas­ingly con­fi­dent theyll gain Sen­ate con­trol in No­vember, and for ev­i­dence watch how they han­dle Re­pub­li­can Sen­a­tor Tim Scotts po­lice re­form bill this week. De­moc­rats are sig­nal­ing theyll block the bill even from mov­ing to the floor for de­bate, much less votes on amend­ments.

              This is cyn­i­cism squared, and it can only mean that De­moc­rats feel theyll pay no po­lit­i­cal price for ob­struc­tion. Wide ma­jori­ties of Amer­i­cans in both par­ties want some­thing done, but De­moc­rats may be bet­ting the me­dia will blame de­feat on Pres­i­dent Trump and por­tray the GOP as un­rea­son­able. They may be right, but thats un­fair to the Scott bill that is a good-faith ef­fort to nudge lo­cal po­lice de­part­ments to­ward bet­ter prac­tices….

              No one should think federal reform will end police abuses, but Mr. Scotts bill goes a long way toward meeting Democratic priorities. It ought to be the basis for compromisethat is, unless Democrats think they can kill it, blame Republicans in the process, and ride the issue to November and control of all of Washington.

              Yup, thats the Democratic plan. No actual intent to work out a plan to help police or minorities. More to use the issue as a lever to obtain power. And if they succeed, the reform initiative vanishes until the next time its useful.

              • clickpenguin_460

                Member
                June 24, 2020 at 4:40 pm

                What else is new.

                They may overreach like they did with kavanaugh, Russia, Ukraine, etc.

                • Unknown Member

                  Deleted User
                  June 24, 2020 at 4:58 pm

                  Yes…but here someone may actually be hurt in a way that wouldnt have happened with a reform measure in place.

                  • btomba_77

                    Member
                    June 25, 2020 at 8:19 am

                    [link=https://reason.com/2020/06/25/qualified-immunity-prison-guards-trent-taylor-naked-inmate-feces-5th-circuit/]https://reason.com/2020/06/25/qualified-immunity-prison-guards-trent-taylor-naked-inmate-feces-5th-circuit/

                    [/link]
                    [h1]Prison Guards Who Locked Naked Inmate in Cell Filled With ‘Massive Amounts’ of Feces Got Qualified Immunity[/h1] [h2]The 5th Circuit Court of Appeals acknowledged that the plaintiff’s Eighth Amendment rights were violated.[/h2]

                    On September 6, 2013, Taylor says that he was forced naked into a cell with “massive amounts” of feces across the floor, windows, walls, and ceiling. It gave off a “strong fecal odor.” Taylor claims he could not drink water because feces were “packed inside” the faucet, and he did not eat over worries that the food might get contaminated. 
                     
                    Taylor alleges that Cortez, Davison, and Hunter laughed at him when he expressed concerns and that one guard told him he was “going to have a long weekend.” Taylor says that Swaney similarly shrugged off his complaints, telling him “Dude, this is Montford, there is shit in all these cells from years of psych patients.” Taylor stayed in the cell until September 10th.

                    ircuit Judge Jerry E. Smith writes in his opinion that Taylor’s case meets the threshold for an Eighth Amendment violation. He cites two court precedents[link=https://casetext.com/case/mccord-v-maggio][i]McCord v. Maggio[/i][/link] (1991) and [link=https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-5th-circuit/1376600.html][i]Gates v. Cook[/i][/link] (1994)that affirm a prisoner is not to be subjected to egregiously unsanitary living conditions. [i]Gates[/i], the judge writes, further supports Taylor’s claims that the guards acted with deliberate indifference, which Smith notes is “no small hurdle.”
                     
                    But in a poignant demonstration of how qualified immunity works in practice, Smith then transitions to explaining why the guards deserve protection from civil liability: “The law wasn’t clearly established. Taylor stayed in his extremely dirty cells for only six days,” Smith writes. “Though the law was clear that prisoners couldn’t be housed in cells teeming with human waste for months on end, we hadn’t previously held that a time period so short violated the Constitution. That dooms Taylor’s claim.”
                     
                    Put more plainly, the guards cannot be held liable, but not because their alleged conduct didn’t infringe on Taylor’s right to be free from cruel and unusual punishment. It didcurrent case law confirms as much. Taylor cannot sue the guards for violating his constitutional rightswhich the Court agrees happenedbecause the length of time Taylor spent in those filthy conditions has not been carved out with razor-like precision in previous case law.

                    [/QUOTE]
                     

  • btomba_77

    Member
    June 26, 2020 at 7:11 am

    [link=https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia-protests-676-teargas-mayor-jim-kenney-danielle-outlaw-20200625.html]https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia-protests-676-teargas-mayor-jim-kenney-danielle-outlaw-20200625.html

    [/link]
    [h1]Philly Police Commissioner and  Mayor  apologize for teargassing of peaceful protesters[/h1]

    In a remarkable news conference outside Police Headquarters, Kenney and Outlaw said v[b]ideos that surfaced since the June 1 demonstration clearly contradicted their initial version of events, in which they said protesters had thrown rocks at unnamed officers and threatened a state troopers car before authorities began using what they called less than lethal force to clear the highway.[/b][b]
    [/b]
    In particular, Kenney and Outlaw each cited a [link=https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000007174941/philadelphia-tear-gas-george-floyd-protests.html]nine-minute video posted Thursday by the New York Times[/link] that featured a host of footage from the scene showing police firing clouds of gas and pepper spray toward a peaceful crowd even as the people tried to escape and were trapped on a steep embankment.

    Outlaw said she was extremely disturbed and quite frankly[b] sickened beyond description[/b] by the compilation.
    The comprehensive video largely confirmed what protesters, journalists, and neutral observers [link=https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia-police-676-protest-vine-street-expressway-video-brutality-pepper-spray-20200614.html]have reported for weeks[/link]  that there was no evidence of the type of aggressive action toward law enforcement that officials said prompted police to fire upon the crowd.
    Asked why she was apologizing Thursday, Outlaw said the Times video account had more detail than she had previously known.
    The second I find out as the leader of this department and organization that theres contradictory information to what I personally came out and said its important for me to come out and clarify what now Ive seen, she said.
    Kenney said the Times video displayed tactics that were completely unacceptable, and he apologized for his statements in the wake of the incident in which he justified the use of tear gas: I now know that my statements were based on inaccurate information being relayed from the scene. He did not say who gave him that information.[/QUOTE]
     

    • btomba_77

      Member
      July 1, 2020 at 6:58 pm

      [h2][link=https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/505544-poll-finds-dramatic-shift-among-white-democrats-on-police-brutality]Poll finds dramatic shift among white Democrats on police brutality[/link][/h2]

      The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research found in survey released Wednesday that 64 percent of white Democrats in June described police violence against the public as very or extremely serious. In 2015, that number was just 29 percent.
      Similarly, the number of white Democrats who said the justice system is too lenient toward police who cause injury or death on the job increased by 40 points — from 46 percent to 86 percent. They were also far more likely to say police more commonly use force against Black people than white people, jumping from 62 percent in 2015 to 87 percent in June.
       
      The poll results come after weeks of protests against police brutality sparked by the killing of [link=https://thehill.com/person/george-floyd]George Floyd[/link], an unarmed Black man who died in Minneapolis police custody, and as Democrats seek to draw a contrast with Republicans on the issue of racial injustice heading into the November elections.
       
      The polls from 2015 and 2020 suggest that while Black Americans have long viewed racial inequities in policing, white Americans, especially Democrats, seem to be undergoing a national awakening white Democrats were the demographic that changed their views the most on the issue in the last five years.

      [/QUOTE]

      [img]http://www.apnorc.org/projects/Documents/06_23_2020_Chart1_sc.png[/img]

      [img]http://www.apnorc.org/projects/Documents/06_23_2020_Chart2.png[/img]
       

      • clickpenguin_460

        Member
        July 2, 2020 at 4:16 am

        It’s almost as if the media can shape the minds of the sheeple…  Strange…

  • btomba_77

    Member
    July 3, 2020 at 11:22 am

    [link=https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1279116975034322945]https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1279116975034322945[/link]
     
    Florida sheriff says he’ll deputize gun owners if department can’t handle protesters…
     
     
    what could go wrong?!

    • kayla.meyer_144

      Member
      July 3, 2020 at 11:44 am

      2nd Amendment solutions to 1st Amendment demonstrations!
       
      The police have historically been used by governments, Federal and State and private companies to put down people demanding their rights.
       
      It’s the Mercan Way! 

      • clickpenguin_460

        Member
        July 3, 2020 at 3:13 pm

        Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people[i][b] peaceably [/b][/i]to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

        • kayla.meyer_144

          Member
          July 3, 2020 at 3:45 pm

          And?

          • 19462008

            Member
            July 4, 2020 at 7:43 am

            I have never seen, nor read, the Police (not the city permit ordnance team) restricting peaceful demonstrations that have followed the allowance within that permit or gathering. Describe peaceful vs non peaceful? In addition, the police in any situation have a duty to protect other citizens surroundings and well being if the protester(s) seems fit not to follow the common rule an respect and assembly. Again, what is reasonable  for the term peaceful. Any day? any time? on my lawn? block my neighborhood street? burning trash cans? leaving you trash in my yard for an even 4 blocks down the street?
             
            There is no set rules for protest scheduling, however, there are standard moral rules for when and how. If you can’t follow those simple rules, you don’t get valued, your cause doesn’t get valued and therefore the “community safety force” will politely ask you to leave with warnings related to the law of the town or city. If you don’t, then you get your ass kicked and you end crying on CNN. Prove me wrong. Look at the Mayor of Seattle, she no likey getting the same treatment. She’s a full on Karen.

            • kayla.meyer_144

              Member
              July 4, 2020 at 8:33 am

              [link=https://abcnews.go.com/US/nypd-clashes-protesters-pride-rally-anniversary-stonewall-riots/story?id=71510651]https://abcnews.go.com/US…iots/story?id=71510651[/link]
               
              [link=https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/07/01/cyclist-arrested-at-protest-files-500-000-claim-with-city/5351811002/]https://www.jsonline.com/…-with-city/5351811002/[/link]
               
              [link=https://gothamist.com/news/nypds-ambush-of-peaceful-bronx-protesters-was-executed-nearly-flawlessly-city-leaders-agree]https://gothamist.com/new…sly-city-leaders-agree[/link]

              • clickpenguin_460

                Member
                July 6, 2020 at 4:23 am

                This is the real problem that needs to be fixed.
                 
                [link=https://www.foxnews.com/politics/atlanta-mayor-calls-for-citizens-to-stop-shooting-each-other-after-murder-of-8-year-old-near-blm-protest-site]https://www.foxnews.com/p…-near-blm-protest-site[/link]

                • btomba_77

                  Member
                  July 6, 2020 at 4:52 am

                  It is certainly [b]a[/b] problem that needs to be fixed.  Framing it as [b]the[/b] problem implies that other problems (like criminal justice reform, the topic of this thread) shouldn’t also be addressed.

                   
                  It’s important to remember that gun violence doesn’t conglomerate in dense urban communities of color at random.  It is a the highly predictable result of a combination of systemic racism and poverty mixed into a society with a heavily armed citizenry.

                  If we take the steps to address systemic racism, urban poverty, and easy access to guns we will over time see a dramatic reduction in gun violence.
                   
                  The US could go back and review the recommendations of the Kerner Commission. They could be easily update from the 60s to now.
                  _____
                   
                  Now … back to criminal justice reform.
                   
                   

                  • clickpenguin_460

                    Member
                    July 6, 2020 at 5:51 am

                    Black on black violence and urban violence in general is a much bigger problem than some perceived systemic racism or an occasion rural shooting. Scapegoating police is not the answer.

                    What’s your definition of systemic racism?

                    Do you consider affirmative action and race based hiring forms of systemic racism?

                    • btomba_77

                      Member
                      July 6, 2020 at 6:16 am

                      Quote from Cubsfan10

                      Black on black violence and urban violence in general is a much bigger problem than some perceived systemic racism

                       
                      Disagree. I view urban violence as just one of many symtpoms stemming from systemic racism.  Absent systemic racism in the US, gun violence would have no significant racial disparity when adjusted for income and population density.
                       

                      Scapegoating police is not the answer.

                       
                      Agree. But that doesn’t mean that criminal justice reform isn’t an important undertaking.  It is.

                      What’s your definition of systemic racism?

                       
                      Prejudice, discrimination or antagonism towards a group of people based on a perception of their race or ethnicity that is embedded as normal practice within a society and/or its institutions.
                       

                      Do you consider affirmative action and race based hiring forms of systemic racism?

                      No.

                    • clickpenguin_460

                      Member
                      July 6, 2020 at 6:40 am

                      “Absent systemic racism in the US, gun violence would have no significant racial disparity when adjusted for income and population density.”
                       
                      You really believe that?  The reason African Americans commit more crimes, more violent crimes, etc. is only due to systemic racism?  No other factors?
                       
                      How are race based hiring practices, affirmative action, and other similar programs not discrimination?  It’s cool with you then if a company wants to only hire Asians?  Or Caucasians?
                       
                      True equality means the same rules for everyone.  No difference in treatment because of your skin color.  Are there instances of bias and stereotyping by cops and people sometimes?  Yes.  But that’s human nature and it happens to all people in every direction.  
                       
                      Can African Americans be racist?

                    • btomba_77

                      Member
                      July 6, 2020 at 6:48 am

                      Yes. African Americans can be racist. But since they lack cultural and economic power they are unable to institute systemic racism.
                       
                      ________
                       
                      Yes. I really believe that. If we could go back in history and have the slave trade never exist and black Americans had a similar immigration and integration story to the rest of us immigrants there would be no significant difference in violence rates.
                       
                      ______
                       
                      You asked me if affirmative action was “racist”.  I do not believe it is.
                       
                      That is a very different question from whether it is discriminatory. It is.

                    • clickpenguin_460

                      Member
                      July 6, 2020 at 7:18 am

                      Quote from dergon

                      Yes. African Americans can be racist. But since they lack cultural and economic power they are unable to institute systemic racism.

                      ________

                      Yes. I really believe that. If we could go back in history and have the slave trade never exist and black Americans had a similar immigration and integration story to the rest of us immigrants there would be no significant difference in violence rates.

                      ______

                      You asked me if affirmative action was “racist”.  I do not believe it is.

                      That is a very different question from whether it is discriminatory. It is.

                       
                      It would always be someone.  Whites are the minority in most of the world, for example.
                       
                      Fair enough about affirmative action but most people use the term racism loosely these days so I wasn’t sure how you felt about it.  I’m not going to focus on that topic as it has likely been discussed tons of times before on here.
                       
                      And to Frumi, I’m not suggesting anything about blacks persay.  I’m saying the stats show that a certain group commits more crime than others and there are other factors (socioeconomic, cultural, family structure, etc.) that contribute and not just systemic racism.  Lower socioeconomic whites commit more violent crimes as well if you want to take the race focus out of it.  I had originally posted a link to an article describing the Atlanta mayor being fed up with the black on black violence.  It’s a problem and it seems like the mainstream media and politicians are unwilling to address for fear of being called racist.  That’s a problem too, don’t you think?

                    • btomba_77

                      Member
                      August 15, 2020 at 7:41 am

                      [h1][b]Trump Wont Answer Police Questionnaire[/b][/h1]  
                      The International Association of Chiefs of Police asked for each candidates views on nine specific areas of crime or other issues that impact law enforcement, and the solutions they planned to provide. The chiefs asked how they would address violent crime, violence against women, hate crimes, homegrown violent extremism, opioid abuse and traffic safety, the [link=https://www.washingtonpost.com/crime-law/2020/08/14/trump-biden-tout-experience-police-chiefs-questionnaire-president-skips-some-questions/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-high_trumpbidenpolice-435pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans]Washington Post[/link] reports.
                       
                      Bidens response on the nine issues stretched over four pages, calling for assault weapons bans, massive investment in drug treatment programs and investing $300 million in the COPS program to hire more officers and deputies.
                       
                      Trump did not respond to the nine issues and provided no explanation.
                       

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 15, 2020 at 6:09 pm

                      I love the idea that there is a worldwide and historical conspiracy in keeping “black” people down. That’s the funny paradox also that bit the leftist Jared Diamond in the arse eventually in Guns, Germs and Steel, too.
                       
                      It doesn’t matter what you believe, or want to believe. What matters is the reality, what do you do walking down the street at night – ask Jesse Jackson.

                    • Unknown Member

                      Deleted User
                      August 15, 2020 at 6:57 pm

                      You may be one of the most miserable individuals Ive ever come across

                      Do you do anything for fun?

                    • jennycullmann

                      Member
                      October 15, 2020 at 4:24 pm

                      Quote from Chirorad84

                      You may be one of the most miserable individuals Ive ever come across

                      Do you do anything for fun?

                       
                      It looked like destroying your arguments was pretty amusing for the guy. Your response says it all.

                    • btomba_77

                      Member
                      November 13, 2020 at 5:58 am

                      [link=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-13/nyc-pilot-sends-health-workers-in-place-of-police?srnd=premium]NYC Pilot  Program Tries Mental Health Responders in Place of Police[/link] [image]https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif[/image]

                    • kayla.meyer_144

                      Member
                      July 6, 2020 at 6:50 am

                      What are you suggesting Cub? Black people are prone crime and to violence? By dint of what?

                    • kayla.meyer_144

                      Member
                      July 6, 2020 at 6:55 am

                      Frederick Douglass Statue torn down in Rochester, NY.

  • btomba_77

    Member
    September 27, 2020 at 5:23 am

    [link=https://www.ocregister.com/2020/09/25/oc-sheriffs-deputies-who-lied-on-reports-testify-that-they-didnt-know-it-was-illegal/]OC sheriffs deputies who lied on reports testify that they didnt know it was illegal[/link]
     
     

    Two fired Orange County sheriffs deputies convicted of lying on their police reports testified recently before a grand jury that they didnt know it was illegal to falsify the documents, transcripts show. Atkinson and Simpson, considered the worst offenders in the departments evidence scandal, were allowed to plead guilty in June to a misdemeanor charge of willful omission to perform their official duty and were given one year informal probation, with no jail time, no community service and no fine.

    ***
    Atkinson and Simpson told grand jurors during Moras hearing that they had never been trained on a Penal Code section making it illegal to falsely write in their reports that they had booked evidence typically guns, drugs, money and photos. Special prosecutor Patrick K. OToole told grand jurors that he gave the plea deal to Atkinson and Simpson partially because they had not been informed of the Penal Code section for lying on a official report.

    So I let them plead to the less serious charge because I thought it was justified under the circumstances, OToole told the jurors. And I think you will recall also their testimony that, not that ignorance of the law is any excuse, but they had never heard of this government code section before, or I dont think any of these people ever thought the Penal Code section applies to them in what they are doing.

    ***

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