[Unknown Member]

I know of an ER doc who became a pilot, flying a small
tubroprop for a local air-ambulance company. He looked content and happy. His wife was an ob-gyn, so not much stress financially, I assume.
 
Have you considered going part-time?  It makes a huge difference if you can go to 0.5-0.6FTE.  Even going to 0.8FTE helps.  Radiology can be fun and inspiring if you take out the grind that seems to be crushing most practices nowadays. With the job market being what it is, some practices will consider hiring a part-timer over not hiring anybody at all.
Even at 0.5FTE you would earn enough to live comfortably, and have a health insurance. You could pursue real estate as a hobby and have more time for your family.  I guess the key would be finding the right group where the existing radiologists aren’t resentful of a person working part time while they’re understaffed…
 
 

[tomcat8766]

I think that’s really good advice. My group MIGHT let me cut back to 0.9 FTE but I’m skeptical they would let me go lower than that. It’s worth a try though!

[tdetlie_105]

Sorry to hear about your predicament.  I personally do not know of any rads leaving the field for a career change.  Keep in mind other fields have their challenges as well.  My best advice would be to cut back to part time (as already stated) or find a VA gig.  It will be tough to find another job/career that will get your anywhere near the same bang for your buck as radiology. Good luck

[erasmopa]

My advice is take a 7 on 14 off gig. You will make good money and be able to start dabbling in real estate or some other endeavor during your time off. If after a few years the other endeavors are bearing fruit and you still feel the same way about radiology then you can switch careers. Keep in mind much of what youre feeling gets better with experience and if you can stick it out a few more years your level of stress may improve.

[afazio.uk_887]

Its tough to make Rad level money outside of Rads for most of us.

[tom.claikens_334]

.

[tomcat8766]

Unfortunately, I think I already am one of those rads that reads 15% less than average. It’s not because I’m lazy. It’s because I perseverate too much and sometimes genuinely don’t feel knowledgable enough to read the case. I end up spending too long googling stuff or just asking colleagues for help.

[tom.claikens_334]

.

[tom.claikens_334]

.

[tomcat8766]

Very true!

[Radscatter]

I know several that left radiology and went to work for big Pharma and Device companies. The one I am close with say it was the best decision they have ever made. They did have to work their way up in the company a couple years in order to get to mid six digits. One made a good bit from their RSUs (retire early amounts) once the companies product hit it big.  If you got what it takes to be CMO, then sky is the limit. 

[satyanar]

Got what it takes to be CMO. Whats the chance of that if you cant make it as a radiologist? I guess if you have the skill set to be a great salesperson. Do you have what it takes? Ready to make a lot less working a lot more to find out? Then go for it!

[abstone38_669]

Its difficult and you are not alone in how you feel Raven.

Its high volume, long hours, high responsibility work but it pays real well and is in high demand.

Before quitting, there are many possibilities within radiology to reduce stress. Part time work, more specialty reads, VA, pay per click set up where they cant pressure you as much, etc.

Also, take comfort in that the strong demand for radiologists reduces the chances of being dismissed from a position so dont be so hard on your self.

[ebshanon]

I would consider going less than 1.0 FTE and see what you think.  Radiology is the best gig for flexible work options with decent pay especially with this job market.  
 
What physician orientated real estate course are you considering?  They all seem rather not well done to me of the ones I know of.  Ive been actively and passively investing myself ever since I became an attending and Im on track to cover my monthly expenses.  WCI is ok but alot of it is repackaged boggle heads with some wrapper to make physicians think they are unique and special.  His real estate recommendations are frankly awful driven by his kickbacks.   

[tomcat8766]

The one I’m looking at is called Zero to Freedom through Cashflowing Rentals by SemiRetiredMD. I don’t know anyone who has taken the course but I have read some of their blogs and listened to some of their podcasts. It’s made by a physician couple.

[kmh0667]

Just my 2 cents, look for another job in radiology. I think a lot probably suck, but a lot probably don’t. Take your time and take advantage of this job market.

[Chris7549]

Be very cautious with the physician real estate crowd. Bigger pockets probably has any of the useful info for free.
i would echo whats said above, find an easy or part time radiology gig. Youll make more than just about anything else youll do. Test side gigs if youd like and maybe something takes off but keep but keep reliable income coming in.

[Radscatter]

its also probably not a great time to get into real estate. No one can accurately predict he future, but we just had a nationwide runup in RE Valuation and now interest rates are approaching 7%. JPo is also talking about higher for longer.  Best case scenario is that RE stays flat for the next couple of years. Current cap rates on most properties for sale  are so poor that US Treasuries pay better.
 
 

[alex.nieto_484]

time to get a job at the VA. cant be sued, slow pace, quality expectations are low

[mildenp]

If you have gone through medical school and radiology residency and are now so anxious you cant handle probably the easiest job in medicine for the money then I highly doubt you will be able to transition into being a successful independent business person.

Agree with the others. Go part time. Maybe see a therapist and get on anti anxiety medication.

[btomba_77]

VA versus part time

Only a few people will be able to generate income anywhere near approaching a rad salary doing other work.

You have 15 years of sunk cost in your education. Unless you hate the work, do the work. Just do less of it.

[cody.a.keller_68]

Some good advice above, but i would strongly suggest that you find a good therapist. Self doubt and perseveration can follow you no matter where you work. Getting help may improve satisfaction with your current job. If not, you will at least have increased self awareness and tools for success in whatever career you pursue.

[abstone38_669]

^^ also consider undiagnosed OCD/perfectionism which infuses doubt and compulsive behavior into everything.

Burnout can make a physician feel ineffective and drained.

Is it worth taking meds for a job, if youre fine outside of it?

[ranweiss]

Go work at the va or go part time. Plenty of options without wasting all your training.

[stlmchenry_510]

I think everyone in medicine has burnout feelings at some point.

[abstone38_669]

Its tough to keep motivated to work like this as you get older and richer. Whats the point if you have enough?

There is not much enjoyment working on a fast moving assembly line where perfection is expected.

[Unknown Member]

I know several Indian radiologists who invested in motels and quit

Not sure what the draw to cheap motels are but I think they have them staffed by cheap labor by sponsoring their family members from the homeland to work for them

Anyway I know 3 that quit rads and did this

[Unknown Member]

The motels is an indian thing. Not being racist. 
 
@OP – many of us feel the way you do, to a greater or lesser degree, at the early part of our career. I trained with anal attendings at academic programs and when I came out I held myself to an unrealistic standard for community radiologist. 
 
I am much better now but still not fast. This helped:
1. Realize that your interpretation cannot always give them the diagnosis, but can still be helpful. If the academic neuroradiologist in the university center is the gold standard at 100%, and your partner who is a fellow trained neuro who is the go-to person is 70%, maybe you as an MSK guy reading neuro MRI is 50%. It’s not a binary thing. It’s okay. It’s normal. You tell them what it isn’t – it’s not a tumor, it’s not a bleed, it’s some funny white matter signal. You have to give a wider ddx – demyelinating, vasculitis, etc. That’s okay, you’re doing your job as general radiologist. 
 
2. It’s actually hard for us to kill someone by accident. If you miss something, other doctors are looking at the patient. If they are walking and talking versus unwitnessed fall and unconscious and trouble breathing and asymmetric pupils, the other docs are not going to rely on your “neg acute” read. If you miss something big, there is going to be a neurologist or neurosurgeon looking at the images as well. We can do great things and have great saves and pickup subtle life changing things… but not usually. Our role is more limited than people think. So take a deep breath. 
 
3. Sometimes you just gotta say something halfway intelligent and move on. You only have so much time to perseverate on a train wreck study. Pick up the big things , the relevant things. All them incidentalomas… do  your best but you after a short while “time’s up” and you gotta say “something” and move on. 
 
4. You really need to go part time or different job. Don’t let inertia make you remain in your current situation and not make a change in your life. Accept that you’ll make less money. Accept that you don’t need so much money, none of us do, we just spend our way into getting stuck in a certain lifestyle. There’s always enough money as a physician, you are good. Take a nice healthy paycut and take an easy job or part time job. 

[Unknown Member]

Excellent thoughtful analysis. ^^

[kilian.rothenbuhler]

well said.

[tdetlie_105]

Great post Flounce
 
A large part of getting sued seems to be wrong place, wrong time.  I’ve seen egregious misses/no-calls without repercussions and have also seen people sued for trivial BS nonsense.   
 
There is a skill in knowing how to dictate the big picture/key findings without getting bogged down trying to mention every single finding.  I largely do not have this skill but others def do.  Seems to conserve bandwidth/energy.

[jneely01]

PM sent

[benoit.elens]

Nailed it.  OTOH, if you don’t like Radiology, get out.  Life is too short.
 

Quote from Flounce

The motels is an indian thing. Not being racist. 

@OP – many of us feel the way you do, to a greater or lesser degree, at the early part of our career. I trained with anal attendings at academic programs and when I came out I held myself to an unrealistic standard for community radiologist. 

I am much better now but still not fast. This helped:
1. Realize that your interpretation cannot always give them the diagnosis, but can still be helpful. If the academic neuroradiologist in the university center is the gold standard at 100%, and your partner who is a fellow trained neuro who is the go-to person is 70%, maybe you as an MSK guy reading neuro MRI is 50%. It’s not a binary thing. It’s okay. It’s normal. You tell them what it isn’t – it’s not a tumor, it’s not a bleed, it’s some funny white matter signal. You have to give a wider ddx – demyelinating, vasculitis, etc. That’s okay, you’re doing your job as general radiologist. 

2. It’s actually hard for us to kill someone by accident. If you miss something, other doctors are looking at the patient. If they are walking and talking versus unwitnessed fall and unconscious and trouble breathing and asymmetric pupils, the other docs are not going to rely on your “neg acute” read. If you miss something big, there is going to be a neurologist or neurosurgeon looking at the images as well. We can do great things and have great saves and pickup subtle life changing things… but not usually. Our role is more limited than people think. So take a deep breath. 

3. Sometimes you just gotta say something halfway intelligent and move on. You only have so much time to perseverate on a train wreck study. Pick up the big things , the relevant things. All them incidentalomas… do  your best but you after a short while “time’s up” and you gotta say “something” and move on. 

4. You really need to go part time or different job. Don’t let inertia make you remain in your current situation and not make a change in your life. Accept that you’ll make less money. Accept that you don’t need so much money, none of us do, we just spend our way into getting stuck in a certain lifestyle. There’s always enough money as a physician, you are good. Take a nice healthy paycut and take an easy job or part time job. 

[tomcat8766]

Thanks. You are not the first person to tell me that so there is probably some truth to it.

[william.wang_997]

Some really good advice above by dysdiadochokinesia. I agree that it would be stupid to leave Radiology because of self doubt early on in the career. See a therapist. 

[abstone38_669]

would say, yes to seeing someone and possibly getting meds for OCD if needed.

Is taking meds/SSRIs for ocd for a radiology job reasonable assuming you are fine otherwise in life?

[william.wang_997]

Doesnt have to be pharmacotherapy.

[Unknown Member]

Consider switching to a slower job as a bridge to getting back to a faster pace job. Will give you a break, let you develop some comfort with a certain pace and trusting yourself, as you then ramp up to faster and faster speeds as you show yourself that nothing catastrophic occurs.

[mgmacielendocrino_912]

Quote from RadCog

time to get a job at the VA. cant be sued, slow pace, quality expectations are low

VA is a chill job in general but you can definitely be sued there!  They just can’t go after your personal wealth as the fed govt is the guarantor for the liability.

[tomcat8766]

Thanks for the advice. I’ve probably listened to 100+ hours of the Bigger Pockets podcast and have read one of their books.

[tomcat8766]

I definitely don’t have what it takes to be a salesperson. Selling would be a nightmare job for me.

[tomcat8766]

I agree. If I stayed in radiology for another 2-3 years I could pay off my loans, at which point I’d be willing to take a substantial pay cut for my overall wellbeing and sanity.

[nadya]

I feel the same. The stress and scrutiny from colleagues makes my job unenjoyable. I am switching from PP to an employed job where I will be working nearly a hundred days less a year. I agre with thr other posts, the more time I am away from the less I ruminate about it.

[tomcat8766]

I looked into getting a VA gig. The first VA was in a large metro that I would like to live in (not a coastal city). They said “Sure, we’ll hire you. But you have to work every other Saturday and Sunday. After a couple of years, if we like you, we might consider switching you over to a M-F gig. The average weekday RVU expectation is around ___RVU units but since you’ll be working on the weekends, your RVU expectations are 1.8x the expected RVU units. There is no extra pay for working weekends and we don’t participate in the Education Debt Repayment Program.” I considered the offer because I really wanted to raise my family in that location, but ultimately turned it down because I felt like I was being taken advantage of.
 
The second VA I looked at was in a slightly less desirable location. They said “You’d have to work one weekend/month plus a few evening shifts/month. Plus you have to take beeper call one weekend/month. You MIGHT qualify for the Education Debt Repayment Program but we won’t know for sure until after you start. By the way, we have excess rads in your subspecialty so you won’t get to read anything in that field.” I’m actually still considering that job but am not overly impressed. I think I need to broaden my job search to smaller cities and less desirable locations. I think cutting back to part-time could be a good solution though.

[aldoctc]

Quote from Raven

Does anyone have any experience or know of anyone with experience transitioning out of radiology or transitioning out of medicine in general? I am a fairly young rad and just don’t feel like I can do this for the rest of my career.
….
No amount of money is worth the stress and unhappiness that I am going through. 
….
I have read a few books on real estate and am thinking about taking a real estate course designed specifically for physicians. My thought process is that it is something I could dabble with while still working full-time as a radiologist to see if I like it and could have success with it.   
 ….
 Does anyone know of any physicians that have transitioned into personal finance?
I try to remind myself everyday that I am lucky to have a job in the first place, but I’m not sure how much longer I can do this. 

[edited]
 
Based purely on your posts in this thread, I’d say….  Get out.  Life is too short to wake up every morning knowing you’re going to spend a day doing something stressful you despise.  I’ve been in a position where I’d wake up every morning and in that groggy half-awake state it would suddenly hit me so hard I felt like I just took a heavy gut punch “Oh $%#@!, I have to go to work today.”  Horrible way to live.  
 
Real estate:  To be successful, you can’t just ‘dabble’ in it.  If you’re trying to work full time, be a family man, and dip your toes into RE, you’ll probably end up doing a bad job at it and hopefully not lose too much cash.  Formulate a plan, with definable goals, metrics, and timelines if you want to ‘dabble.’  What do you want to do in RE?  Run a string of residential rental properties?  Commercial?  Development?  RE broker?  Think it through thoroughly and make sure you’re not approaching it from a perspective of hating your current gig and willing to do anything.  
 
Personal Finance:  To me, this job is more about sales than finance.  The people I see doing well in this usually shill for high commission things like annuities, insurance, and front loaded mutual funds.  They also have to be able to glad-hand and sweet-talk people into liking them enough to fork over their cash.  In one of your posts, you admit that sales would be terrible fit for you.  IDK how most financial advisors live with the fact that 90+% of their clients would be best served with the advice “Fire me, invest all of your excess cash in a total stock market index fund, AND DON’T LOOK AT THE ACCOUNT BALANCE FOR 35 YEARS.”  Then again there’s old saying:  “It’s impossible to convince a man of something when his livelihood depends on him *not* understanding it.”  The above being said, if you’re somewhat extraverted and can build up a network, being a ‘financial advisor’ is a pretty sweet gig.  
 

[abstone38_669]

^^ get out is easy to say but you have to make a living and rads is one of the best that a radiologist can make.

How can you know that the next radiology job or career will be any better?

[aldoctc]

Quote from astone38

^^ get out is easy to say but you have to make a living and rads is one of the best that a radiologist can make.

How can you know that the next radiology job or career will be any better?

 
Agree!
 
Radiology is a great gig, job, career.  It’s also extremely difficult to pull in the $$$ one can make as a rad in any other career.  However, like any occupation it’s misery if it isn’t a good fit for a person.  And it clearly doesn’t sound like a good fit for OP.  
 
No, there isn’t any way to know the next gig will be an improvement.  At a minimum, there’s the “Wherever you go, there you are.” component.  It’s fine to have an interest in real estate and/or finance, and with research and a rational, well thought out plan, it might even be a better fit for OP.  I don’t know OP nor “the rest of the story” but OP’s post came across as “I took a few finance courses in college, have read a few finance and real estate books, follow some websites, and think this course on real estate investing for physicians sounds great!  So I’m going to chuck my guaranteed 6 figure career and take a flyer on a pipe dream.”  Sounded to me like a combo of hubris and being so miserable as a radiologist that he was talking himself into ANYTHING other than having to read another CXR–a very hazardous mind-set to have when thinking about changing careers.  
 
Not trying to bash the OP, just trying to give some perspective to him and will freely admit that since I don’t know him nor the nuances of his situation, I could be completely FOS.  
 
 
 

[Unknown Member]

From the OP:
I live in constant fear that I will make a mistake that either negatively affects a patient or gets me sued. Additionally, the grind of having to meet productivity requirements is brutal on me. Overall I feel like radiology could be a good job for someone much smarter and better at it than I am. However, I just feel like I am not cut out for radiology or medicine in general.

There is a lot to dissect here but I get the sense you are overwhelmed by fear of making a mistake and self-doubt. You shouldnt feel bad about either but I would seek some professional help to see if you can work on reducing the impact of those negative feelings and hopefully get to a place where you can enjoy the practice of radiology. Can you get to a place where you trust that you have done the best that you can and not be crippled by OCD and not focus on outcomes (or fear of potential outcomes)? You will miss stuff, and those misses could negatively impact someones life. That is a reality you have to life with to practice medicine, and it should motivate us to do our best, but we cannot let it take over us and negatively affect our well being.

Re: self doubt, you have gotten into med school, graduated, completed radiology training, passed your boards and completed all licensing and credentialing. You are at minimum competent to practice radiology and are probably better than you think. You are likely in top 1-5% in intellect and work ethic compared to the general population. The problem in medicine is we are surrounded by brilliant people, many of whom are top 0.1% in intellect and work ethic. Dont let that be your basis for comparison. If you are surrounded by other rads whom you feel are smarter, faster, etc, then try to take the time to learn from how they do it whether indirectly or directly, but dont beat yourself up for not being as good as them.

And regarding productivity, many radiologists and physicians are trying to manage this landscape of increasing productivity requirements. If you ultimately try to seriously re evaluate and re start your relationship with your radiology career, a high volume or even average volume practice is probably not the best place for you. Consider reducing to part time at a lower volume situation. It will probably be more money than you can make in another career. From there, take the time to see if you can find joy and meaning in this career and practice radiology in a way that will (and already does) benefit your patients but also does not cause self harm and ideally brings you a deep sense of fulfillment.

[pranav.devata]

There is a lot to unpack unfortunately.
 
One of my main thoughts is that each and every one of us has doubted ourselves and our knowledge at some point in our career. Most of the time it was probably early on. Depending on what type of residency and fellowship you came from, you may not have had much experience trying to read volume. AND those lower volume programs tend to force the trainee to perseverate on their exams because they are sitting around waiting to be staffed out on a couple studies and have nothing better to do thatn rethink everything they just dictated on their preliim. That breeds self-doubt.  
 
EVERYONE misses stuff. Do NOT compare yourself to anyone other than what you think you can personally acheive. For instance, I used to work with a guy who was a very good radiologist, very smart, very type A. But he was a arsehole. Interpersonally a real c0ckbag. I used to think he was better than I was at reading, until I found a miss by him on an MRI/MRA that meant he didn’t even understand the physics behind what he was seeing…and he put the pt at very very serious risk. So even the best rad misses stuff. You will miss stuff. And yes, as previous replies have said, it actually is difficult to kill someone. The great majority of the time, someone will call you and ask for an addendum on your report. You say oh, gosh, sorry, Thank you. And write your addendum.
 
Another thought that is in the back of my mind is your upbringing. Not to sound like some douche, but maybe this is the first time in your life you have actual responsibility? And that makes it all the more stressful. Just a thought that keeps popping in my head.
 
I would say, yes to seeing someone and possibly getting meds for OCD if needed.
I would say no to leaving radiology and medicine. It is a long hard road with a great payoff. There are very very few careers with such a good result. And as people have said, simply starting a different path doesn’t mean you will be successful. You could give up radiology/medicine and end up broke and disgusted with yourself because of your choices. 
 
Personally, it is amusing to me that someone early on is so worried about their knowledge and accuracy. I mean I get it but… Not to be a arse, but I sit here thinking that I actually very rarely actually doubt my knowledge. NOT because I am the most brilliant mind, but because 99% of what you see in radiology you have seen thousands of tiimes in the past. And what you haven’t seen, you quickly look up on the net. And you will still be revered by many because of your wisdom.
 
Bottom line, you passed boards and are employed. You by definition are bright enough to do the job. Work on your confidence however you can, but don’t give it all up because of self-doubt.