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Anyone else see a change in tax filing?
Anyone else file and notice tax refund isn’t as big this year. I’m noticing like about a 20% difference. I’m getting less on my Fed refund. I’m pretty sure it’s filled out correctly.
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188 Replies
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Haven’t done mine yet.
Not sure how it will play out with the standard deduction changes and SALT-
Haven’t done mine yet but I’m sure the “gifts” from the GOP and Trump won’t go to us but to those who make a hell of a lot more than we do.
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I’d consider myself in the middle class and I’m definitely not going to get the same refund. I don’t have a lot of special tax situation so I just role with TurboTax. I’m kind of figuring where the difference is might be in how they calculate dependents now. I’m head of household as I have a dependent parent. It looks like the changed the deduction from last year. It might well mess with the doctors more depending on the value of your property. SALT looks like it’s capped at $5k.
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It was to “punish” the Blue states who actually have a state surplus that pay welfare to the Red states whose property values and incomes are generally lower and collect money from the Federal government.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
I’d consider myself in the middle class and I’m definitely not going to get the same refund. I don’t have a lot of special tax situation so I just role with TurboTax. I’m kind of figuring where the difference is might be in how they calculate dependents now. I’m head of household as I have a dependent parent. It looks like the changed the deduction from last year. It might well mess with the doctors more depending on the value of your property. SALT looks like it’s capped at $5k.
Unless you’re part-time, I don’t think you qualify as “middle class”. A full-time rad is likely 90th or 95th percentile for household income, particularly in OH (as opposed to Manhattan or SF)…I would also hire a good accountant rather than use TurboTax unless you’re particularly savvy with tax law. Last year my account gave me a projection of how the new tax law would affect me. Based on her calculations I would do better despite living in blue CA but we will see.-
I’m not a radiologist. I’m like Dwight Shrute, assistant to the manager.
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
I’m not a radiologist. I’m like Dwight Shrute, assistant to the manager.
Apparently a lot of rants on twitter regarding decreased refunds. To be fair I am uncertain as to what the net difference is if people received more per paycheck.-
It could be. I didn’t see my pay checks change that much year over year. But in theory even like a $20 change is $500 bucks. It not a significant amount incrementally but more noticeable all at once.
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I can’t wait to pay my fair share toward government [strike]indoctrination[/strike] schooling, healthcare for illegal aliens, and endless wars in the Middle East.
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I think you should find a country where there is no government forcing any of these things on you.
Where oh where?
Russia.
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Good line, Frumious.
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From a political standpoint this is bad news for Trump and the GOP.
People “feel” their refunds bigly (much more bigly than they feel a couple of bucks per paycheck).
Come April 15 if millions of people are now having to pay instead of getting a refund, that will have negative political implications for the Republicans.Yes, people are already getting that money on the front end in their paychecks. But there is already polling that a big majority of people do not “feel” that they are receiving a net benefit from the GOP tax cuts.
Add to this the already strong public perception that [i]only[/i] the very rich and corporations got a tax cut and you have a recipe for disaster.
The totality of the perception means that millions upon millions [i]think[/i] that the GOP raised their taxes in order to give money to corporations and millionaires.
It the Democrats have half a brain they should hammer this all day. Like the saying goes, the perfect political story is one that reinforces already ingrained perceptions … this fits that bill
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That’s pretty much what I’ve landed on. Paycheck went up minimally but my refund this year is down 16-17%. So it’s a noticeable amount. Enough so that I looked at the paperwork 3 times.
One of the things I’ve heard that’s really fudged people is that you deduct mileage anymore. So if you have your own business and travel a lot it adds up.-
So much for Republican signature legislation.
The result is that taxpayers may be paying less over all but still getting a bill after filing their return. That has caught many people off guard.
Ashley Alt, who works in information technology in Illinois, said she was floored when her tax program spit out her $4,800 bill. I was expecting to get less of a refund or maybe owe a little bit, she said. I did not expect to owe two months of take-home pay.
The overhaul has been President Trumps signature accomplishment. It lowered tax rates for businesses and individuals, and it provided a break to self-employed people and those with so-called pass-through businesses, where income passes through the business to the owners personal tax returns.
But it also eliminated or cut back some popular deductions, most notably capping the deduction for state and local taxes at $10,000 a provision that drew significant criticism from residents of high-tax states. Although most people will see their tax burden decline, the Government Accountability Office expected about four million people to pay more.
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Wait and see what happens as the years go by
The supposed tax cut fades out
This was s smoke and mirrors plot to get rid of the state and local tax deduction and begin chipping away at the mortgage deduction
People are just fng stupid to let this one pass
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^ Cuomosexual got hurt by it though, what a whine job
That was funny to see his stupid spending spree hurt even more, the lying, murdering sack of dookie he is-
Its Trump supporters who also got screwed BIGLY by Trump & Republicans.
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Republicans always eventually F things up
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Why would anyone want to get a tax refund?
Just let the government hold onto your money,
earning nothing. Are people that stupid? I trust
my own ability to manage that money. I guess that’s
the difference between conservatives and liberals.-
It aint the liberals beatchin
Its the trumpers who dont understand withholding
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Quote from kpack123
Republicans always eventually F things up
all of trumps accomplishments would take more pages than your nothing burger threads, all combined
you really are living in a world of delusion and hate-
Well Amazon is apparently paying no federal tax on their $11+ billion profit.
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I don’t think anyone is arguing that a refund is a logically smarter way to approach taxes and withholding.
But it is psychologically true that people like the “feel” of the refund … and that large numbers of Americans have come to expect and rely upon refunds to fund major purchases. This is almost certainly distributed evenly across the political spectrum.
As I mentioned above, this is a political problem for the GOP. The perception is of taking a hit … and it reinforces already existing negative feelings about the Republican/Trump tax plan.
It also could be a real economic issue if the lack of refund-based spending is large enough to ripple out into the broader economy.-
Some people have problems reading. Some taxpayers, many Trump supporters, were expecting a refund & instead are paying. Id like to see Trump & Republicans call all the Trump supporters surprised, stupid!
As for stupidity of loaning the government $, thats primarily for those of us who have a decent amount of money left over after bills to invest, etc. Most people dont have enough $ left over each paycheck that the loan would make a damned bit of difference. Nor are they calculating their tax bill in advance of filing. That sort of thing is for those who are sitting pretty on wealth – you know, those with private planes for instance – looking down their noses at the stupid poor classes who expect a $1,000 tax refund.
I think that sort of complaint about loaning the gubmint $ is called, First World problems.
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Not for nothing but this thread was started
by a wealthy person who is not a Trump supporter.
How are the poor better off getting a check for $1000 instead of getting a little more in each check?-
Some had to pay because withholding was insufficient when last year it was sufficient. You think everyone calculates their taxes before tax time??? & lets remember, one of the major problems in this richest country in the world is that a large number of people have insufficient cash lying around, so little so in that in an emergency they cannot find as little as $400. Getting the extra $20/paycheck in the tax cut does not fix their financial problems.
And whoever heard of a tax cut that caused underpayment of taxes????
As for Dan, I do believe he might be a PACS Admin. Not poor but hardly a wealthy income by any means. Certainly not close to yours I wager.
Dan? Are you a closet 1%-er?
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This thread wasn’t started by a wealthy person. I do fine enough but I’m not a doctor. Anyhow I always go in claiming nothing because I don’t want to owe $ either by miscalculating withholding. Also even I withheld less it’s not going to earn any significant income in a savings account.
My typical play is that I either pay down my mortgage principal or do some work on the house. So getting a decent refund is kind of a nice option. This year I’ll probably redo my powder room and I need about a half acre lawn re-do.
It’s probably like Dergon says, it’s mostly in perception. You’ll notice $1000 more than $20.
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Had my preliminary return done. Overall a wash. The substantial deductions I lost (live in CA) were more/less offset by slight drop in federal tax rate
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My records are still coming in
Ive been hit with the alternative minimum tax for the past 5 years
Be interesting to see what my total tax bill is
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I sort of like this limit to SALT. It treats people from different states evenly on the federal level. The timing is also pretty rich – what with California’s light rail debacle and New York’s flubbing of the Amazon situation and Cuomo’s coming up billions of dollars short this year (not to mention that the NY Congress just passed a bill that gives illegal aliens college tuition aid).
Sorry blue-staters, but your states are profligate, and deserve to fail.-
Quote from Knob Creek Rye
Sorry blue-staters, but your states are profligate, and deserve to fail.
this doesn’t even make sense as it’s basically most red states that would be failing without the government getting that $$ from blue states and sending to the red states.
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That’s the inconvenient facts Knob won’t recognize. It’s the Republican way of raising taxes but only on Blue states.
It’s called Red Stare welfare.-
Quote from Frumious
That’s the inconvenient facts Knob won’t recognize. It’s the Republican way of raising taxes but only on Blue states.
It’s called Red Stare welfare.
The Blue states did that all by themselves just fine.
Look at what’s going on, not at your distractions. If you are at the whim of people who can move, and they move, you lose. Don’t be a stupid Cuomosexual
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Irrelevant to the discussion.
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Hahahaha
Its called misery loves company…..
Cut your nose off to spite your face
Its the reason why rural areas are opioid addicted married at 19 and divorced twice before 30
Dumbness and envy
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The GOP in 2017 turned the tax code into a partisan weapon. It will…eventually … come around.
I look forward to Democratic proposal to tax vehicles based on miles driven, fracking extraction & pipeline taxes, and a federal acreage tax to fund urban infrastructure 🙂
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Lotsa envy in that post
A good ole boy post
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[link=https://thehill.com/policy/finance/431244-average-tax-refunds-down-double-digits-irs-data-shows]https://thehill.com/polic…-digits-irs-data-shows[/link]
Average tax refunds down double-digits, IRS data shows[/h1]
Average tax refund amounts are down double-digits compared to last year, according to the latest batch of weekly IRS data about the 2019 tax-filing season released late Friday.
The average refund through Feb. 15 was $2,640, which is 16.7 percent smaller than the average refund through Feb. 16, 2018, according to the IRS data.
IRS data for the first two weeks of the year this year showed an 8.7 percent decline in average refund size compared to 2018.
Refund data is being closely watched this year because this is the first filing season under [link=https://thehill.com/people/donald-trump]President Trump[/link]’s 2017 tax-cut law.[/QUOTE]
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Refunds don’t mean anything and are a poor measure of taxation.
A refund is a bad thing, not a good thing
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More partisan stuff though. Again you don’t care what the info actually means, you just care for a headline you can spin. Cracks me up
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Dergon so the dems should hammer a lie that people incorrectly feel? 99% of people are paying less tax now.
Do you read the stuff you write?
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Yes. The Democrats should still hammer this all day long.
Sure, the GOP can try to give a long response about withholdings and how getting a refund is a bad thing. But that is a political loser and we all know it.
The old adage: “If you’re explaining, you’re losing.”
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Quote from dergon
Yes. The Democrats should still hammer this all day long.
Sure, the GOP can try to give a long response about withholdings and how getting a refund is a bad thing. But that is a political loser and we all know it.
The old adage: “If you’re explaining, you’re losing.”
so they should lie to people. ” I know you aren’t actually paying less taxes, but it sure feels like it, ” ” let’s go back to old plan and pay more taxes”How in the world does that seem logical to you
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[link=https://thehill.com/policy/3737280-business-incomes-partnerships-rife-with-unpaid-taxes-experts-say/]https://thehill.com/polic…aid-taxes-experts-say/[/link]
[b]”Tax Gap” grows again, driven by under-reported income from businesses and partnerships[/b]
A report released by the agency in late October showed that the tax gap the money owed but not paid to the IRS increased to a net of $428 billion.
Of the $428 billion missing from public coffers in that period, $306 billion was from individual income tax and well over a third of that was due to business income, according to IRS data. Thats the largest single category blocked out in the agencys latest report on federal tax compliance.
Divided up another way, underreported income accounts for nearly all of the tax gap at $398 billion. Audits and other enforcement activities retrieve around $68 billion, but that number could substantially increase due to the tax enforcement boost provided in the Inflation Reduction Act over the next decade.[/QUOTE]
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Going with a solar project this year. The federal tax credit will be nice.
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Quote from Thread Killer
Going with a solar project this year. The federal tax credit will be nice.
same – new house will have solar … should give us.approx 70-75% of our average usage
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Quote from dergon
[link=https://thehill.com/policy/finance/431244-average-tax-refunds-down-double-digits-irs-data-shows]https://thehill.com/polic…-digits-irs-data-shows[/link]
Average tax refunds down double-digits, IRS data shows[/h1]
Average tax refund amounts are down double-digits compared to last year, according to the latest batch of weekly IRS data about the 2019 tax-filing season released late Friday.
The average refund through Feb. 15 was $2,640, which is 16.7 percent smaller than the average refund through Feb. 16, 2018, according to the IRS data.
IRS data for the first two weeks of the year this year showed an 8.7 percent decline in average refund size compared to 2018.
Refund data is being closely watched this year because this is the first filing season under [link=https://thehill.com/people/donald-trump]President Trump[/link]’s 2017 tax-cut law.[/QUOTE]
That’s a good thing. Looks like the IRS got their math right with the new witholding tables.
I have some employees who got socked with a couple of k shortfalls, but hey I told you it’s not a good idea to put in 4 exemptions if you are single.
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I don’t see why it’s bad to get a refund. You don’t want to owe tax. But I guess ideally you’d keep the money throughout the year because you could save or invest it.
I’ve actually noticed the uptick in reporting on my observation. That refunds are double digits smaller and people are noticing the changes.
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its bad to get a refund because it’s an interest free loan. the ideal situation is the appropriate amount of taxes are withheld from your paycheck.
again, people are paying less taxes, this is irrefutable. refunds do not matter. this is extremely clear.-
and it’s extremely stupid to try to correlate how much taxes are paying with their refunds. again people are paying less tax.
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Think it’s all about expectation and perception. While no one wants to willingly give an interest free loan to the government, not receiving a refund is distressing, particularly when one relies on this for property taxes etc
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Quote from jd4540
Think it’s all about expectation and perception. While no one wants to willingly give an interest free loan to the government, not receiving a refund is distressing, particularly when one relies on this for property taxes etc
Particularly when one does not have the disposable income IR27 apparently has.
The IRS changed the withholding tables in addition to the tax cut. Most people, unlike IR27 one guesses, are not checking their projected tax bill on a quarterly basis for and seeing that the refund will be reduced or even that they will owe the government money when the prior year they got a refund.
The “interest free” loan issue doesn’t mean that much to most people as opposed to the emotional thing of getting a refund. They are thinking of tax refund as a rebate check. That’s not so hard to understand.
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Quote from Frumious
Quote from jd4540
Think it’s all about expectation and perception. While no one wants to willingly give an interest free loan to the government, not receiving a refund is distressing, particularly when one relies on this for property taxes etc
Particularly when one does not have the disposable income IR27 apparently has.
The IRS changed the withholding tables in addition to the tax cut. Most people, unlike IR27 one guesses, are not checking their projected tax bill on a quarterly basis for and seeing that the refund will be reduced or even that they will owe the government money when the prior year they got a refund.
The “interest free” loan issue doesn’t mean that much to most people as opposed to the emotional thing of getting a refund. They are thinking of tax refund as a rebate check. That’s not so hard to understand.
disposable income is increased under the new tax plan. again do you understand. People are paying less tax now.
I don’t care about feelings. I care that people are taxed less now.
You can make an argument like kpack did about this being a bridge toward removing mortgage deductions and the state and local stuff, and that is actually rational and fine. Trying to convince people that they are paying more taxes now or enforcing their incorrect thoughts that they are is straight up lying and wrong.
again, people are paying less taxes now.-
again this is another time where you guys care entirely about the spin and nothing about the substance.
people are paying less taxes now. I don’t care what your refund is. I care what you pay in taxes. Extremely simple. -
They also paid less taxes under Obama’s stimulus plan. You don’t seem to understand most people are not earning what you earn and are less economically secure by a long shot and don’t see things the way you do about “giving” the government an “interest free loan.”
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dude we’ve been over this before. notice how you make everything personal when you’re wrong. I probably make the least amount of money of anyone in this conversation. I am not an attending. If you’re a radiologist or involved in radiology you probably understand what that means.
My earnings have nothing to do with this discussion, no matter your efforts to bring them into it.
Security? So giving the government extra money that you don’t need to makes people more secure by giving them a lump sum at the end of the year? again you’re wrong. they need money to pay their bills, aka that extra 40 bucks per paycheck actually makes a difference.
everything about your post is wrong. please explain to me how having a large refund is more secure than having access to that money throughout the year and actually being able to use it.
you’re so entrenched into trying to prove a point you can’t back down from it. like trump and the wall. if I argued a lump sum was better you’d say they should have access to it during the year so they can use it to pay their bills. you just like to argue.-
Personal earnings have everything to do with personal economic security. You are missing that entirely.
Someone living paycheck to paycheck, for instance, is not going to care that they paycheck is $20 more because $20 is not going to amount to much but getting the refund/”rebate” check can make a big difference.-
sure in general, however my specific earnings do not pertain to this debate. attack the argument, not the person making it.
again for the 10th time, they are paying less tax now and they are accessing more of their income earlier. tell me how that is a bad thing for income security.
so do you recommend everyone to claim 0 allowances so they have a big return at the end of the year? if so that is really stupid.-
Yeah, whatever.
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You can admit youre wrong. I have many times and will continue to!
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There is an easy way to get a refund. Just put some extra withholding in box 6 on form W4 and you too can feel great when you get next year’s refund. Easy !
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Are you making $11/hr, fw? Or rather, are you making the median household income? Or a bit more?
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Let’s see, median income is about $60k/yr or
Bi-weekly Gross Pay $2,307.69Federal Withholding $359.86
Social Security $143.08
Medicare $33.46
Approx state withholding $100.38
Medical insurance about $100 (could be more)Net Pay $1,570.71
How much discretionary income is left for a family after necessary “fixed” expenses? Not a whole lot left over for savings or investments and 401k. So yes, someone could declare 0 dependents and withhold extra $. Theoretically.
But I’ll wager the majority of AM posters, IR27, fw and the others who insist that saving is “easy” and is no excuse make a bit more than $60k/year for their household. The question is when did they make median income for your family & save substantial amounts for saving and investments as an example for all of us? How did you do it?
Inquiring minds would like to know.
I know people whose median income is around this amount. They function but hardly live high on the hog saving a lot of money. To them getting that income tax check is a bit of a windfall.
Remember that criticism against Obama’s tax cut was that it was dribbled into people paychecks rather than Bush’s single tax refund. Seeing and feeling has a more substantial feel than getting that extra $40/paycheck and nothing else including no tax refund at the end of the year.
When you make multiples of $60k/year you have more options – like tax planning and investment. And saving than do all the other 50+% of the households.
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Dude you really don’t understand how taxes work. And no matter how much you try what I make, what you make, doesn’t matter in this discussion.
These tax changes give people more of their money now. That is for their benefit. There is no logical way to argue anything else. You’re straight up wrong.
I’m not saying they have it easy, that concept has not been discussed. Just the fact that more money in people’s pockets helps them, and the sooner that money is in their pocket, the better. I have no idea how anyone can dispute that
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Ps on my average national salary ( if you haven’t figured out I am a resident) I am saving ~50% gross.
But again my personal finances are irrelevant.
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What you don’t understand is that claiming 0 allowances means more money is taken out of your pay check. So they have even less week to week. I have no idea how this is difficult to understand. So they are even poorer throughout the year.
No rational person would ever recommend this. It’s stupid and wrong. We should go post this on wci and see what everyone says
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DUH! 0 allowances with even extra withholding withholds more $???
How thick are you exactly? What you don’t understand is that $20 extra in your paycheck doesn’t do much for helping you pay your living expenses but a $500 check in April is a nice gift to pay a bill or bills. In this day when very many people can’t come up with $400 for an emergency, a single check with $500 is nice for people to use for something important. As for saving $20/paycheck in a savings account at money market rates will earn them how much of a windfall in earned interest?
Calculate it out please. You get an extra ~$22. Logical in an absolute calculating way but emotionally falls short. As for that “free” loan to the government, I’m sure not having it will help the government spend responsibly.
Again, Obama’s tax cut was substantial in the stimulus but it wasn’t felt emotionally so it failed. While Bush’s tax cut was noticed because ti came in a single check.
Do you also snip coupons when shopping? It also saves money, often more than $20/paycheck.
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The present value of 20 dollars per paycheck is greater than 500 dollars 2 months after end of year.
Done with this conversation, you clearly don’t understand math, finance or taxation.
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The stupid, it hurts.
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I absolutely understand taxes.
What [b]I[/b] am arguing is that the public perception of taxes is a much stronger psychological (and political) force than is the actual understanding.
People [b]feel[/b] their refunds much more than they [b]feel[/b] a little bit more in each paycheck. It’s a logical fallacy… but it is a strong and nearly ubiquitous logical fallacy.
That is bad news for the public’s support of the Trump/GOP tax plan. -
You are both dumb. $20/bi-weekly paycheck, 26 paychecks, 2.25% money market interest rate equals about $526 at the end of the year. this is about what I wrote above.
Both of you do the math yourselves. you can use your fingers if you like. Better yet, use calculators since elementary math isn’t either of your strong points.
FV = Pmt x (((1 + r) ^ n) 1)/r)
FV = $20 x (((1+(0.025/26))^26)-1)/(0.025/26) [i]OK, interest (2.25%/yr) is earned monthly but let’s just award bi-monthly for simplicity[/i]
FV=$20x(((1+0.000961538461538))^26)-1)/0.000961538461538
FV=$20x(1.025302804993335-1)/[b]0.000961538461538[/b]
[b]FV=$20×26.314917193068181[/b]
[b]FV=$526.298343861363626=$526.30[/b]
[b]If interest earned monthly & $40/month is deposited then:[/b]
[b]FV = $40 x (((1+(0.025/12))^12)-1)/(0.025/12)[/b]
[b]FV = $40 x (((1+0.002083333333333)^12)-1/0.002083333333333[/b]
[b]FV = $40 x ((1.002083333333333^12)-1/0.002083333333333[/b]
[b]FV = $40 x (1.025288456983289-1)/[b]0.002083333333333[/b][/b]
[b][b]FV = $40 x 12.138459351978602[/b][/b]
[b][b]FV = $485.538374079144093 + $40 (bi-weekly = 26 payments vs 24 payments monthly)[/b][/b]
[b][b]FV = $525.54[/b][/b]
What is your math, IR27 & fw for saving $20/bi-weekly paycheck with compound interest?
Dergon is correct, the perception of a lump sum feels better than $20/paycheck. The lump sum “feel” supersedes the minimal interest earned for the year.-
For some reason my $14/hr employees have no difficulty understanding this concept. 20 bucks a paycheck vs. getting a refund, it’s the same money.
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$14/hr? Wow! Can you afford to pay them that?
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Wage stagflation over the decades. Or rather, Deflation.
[link=http://money.com/money/4042596/wage-growth-1973-vs-2014/]http://money.com/money/40…e-growth-1973-vs-2014/[/link]
And further consider, the average income in 2017 is $50,321.89, much less than the median household income of around $60k.
[link]https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html[/link]
Yes, these earners know that $20/paycheck is the same as $520 at the end of the year. But has anyone asked them if they’d prefer $20/paycheck or $520 lump sum?
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Quote from Frumious
Yes, these earners know that $20/paycheck is the same as $520 at the end of the year. But has anyone asked them if they’d prefer $20/paycheck or $520 lump sum?
Tell them to put a ’20’ in box 6 of their W4. Easy!
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Front page at [i]The Hill[/i]
[link=https://thehill.com/policy/finance/431227-tax-filing-season-heats-up-fight-over-key-deduction]https://thehill.com/polic…ght-over-key-deduction[/link]
Lower refunds amplify calls to restore key tax deduction[/h1]
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I think we’ll be seeing a lot more of those headlines as filings really heat up
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Yes dergon and you’re advocating for your people to lie to entice voters. Hilarious.
You acknowledge it is true that the money is better now than later but you still want your party to ram home how the old way was better for people, when it clearly isn’t. You can’t make this stuff up. You’re advocating for straight up lying.
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The 20 now is also a little bit more because of the tax breaks than the refund they were getting last year, when they were taxed higher.
So the changes tax them less and give them more money now. I have no idea what logical person could claim that is a bad thing. I don’t care how they feel, they are wrong. Feel isn’t always real.
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It’s just a very strange argument for someone to make that you realize people feel a certain way which is mathematically incorrect but you want the politician to hammer the point, which is a lie. Extremely inappropriate.
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^ This is what we deal with. Reality doesn’t matter, power does.
The left in a nutshell. They show us this sickness daily, here. -
Quote from IR27
It’s just a very strange argument for someone to make that you realize people feel a certain way which is mathematically incorrect but you want the politician to hammer the point, which is a lie. Extremely inappropriate.
the numbers are the numbers but the observation stands true of people noting smaller refunds. I don’t think the $20 every couple weeks is something people notice. It’s not inflating your bank account that much. $1000 is going to get some attention. Perception is reality.
Keep in mind some of the cuts do really hurt people. Like teachers who pay for classroom supplies, or someone who was getting reimbursed for mileage.
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[link=https://thehill.com/policy/finance/431706-watchdog-nearly-11-million-taxpayers-may-be-subject-to-limit-on-key-deduction]https://thehill.com/polic…limit-on-key-deduction[/link]
[b]Tax watchdog estimates 11 million people will be hit by SALT deduction limits[/b]-
Quote from dergon
[link=https://thehill.com/policy/finance/431706-watchdog-nearly-11-million-taxpayers-may-be-subject-to-limit-on-key-deduction]https://thehill.com/polic…limit-on-key-deduction[/link]
[b]Tax watchdog estimates 11 million people will be hit by SALT deduction limits[/b]
Good !
Maybe they’ll get their state and municipal governments to stop spending like drunken sailors.
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On education & infrastructure & other public investments?
Unlike you not everyone wants Mississippis & West Virginias correct way of doing things for their citizens. While holding their hands out for government largesse for what they are not willing to do.
Red State Welfare is not the way to advance America into the future.
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Quote from fw
Quote from dergon
[link=https://thehill.com/policy/finance/431706-watchdog-nearly-11-million-taxpayers-may-be-subject-to-limit-on-key-deduction]https://thehill.com/polic…limit-on-key-deduction[/link]
[b]Tax watchdog estimates 11 million people will be hit by SALT deduction limits[/b]
Good !
Maybe they’ll get their state and municipal governments to stop spending like drunken sailors.
Sure. That’s a fair policy argument (if you’re on that side of the political spectrum)
As an immediate political matter however, it is likely to mean more and continuing bad press for the Trump/GOP tax plan and how returns are being trashed.-
Don’t forget the national debt also crossed $22T. I got an extra $20 coming to me next Thursday though. Maybe I can splurge on a 6’er of Dortmunder.
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You say the rich should be taxed higher, we get rid of SALT which primarily affects the rich and then you complain about that? I don’t get it, it’s doing exactly what you want and taxing the rich more.
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Quote from IR27
You say the rich should be taxed higher, we get rid of SALT which primarily affects the rich and then you complain about that? I don’t get it, it’s doing exactly what you want and taxing the rich more.
It doesn’t just affect the wealthy. Yes I think we should have a more progressive tax system that taxes the bejesus out of very high earners. I don’t think doctors etc… even qualify into what I’m thinking. Like someone who get’s a golden parachute after getting booted from a company after some shady BS should get taxed at 90%. Think equifax CEO that got a $90million parachute. Also there’s no possible scenario that Amazon should be paying ZERO federal taxes.
Also I feel like this tax thing is the long con. Corporations got the best part of it (rich get richer). The GDP numbers touted to make this work are not being achieved. the national debt is going up. So we’re financing that extra $20 bucks I’m getting paid next Thursday. We owe that money to someone and it needs paid if we want to keep our status in the world. Think about what the US pays just to service that debt. It’s an untenable situation.
I’d actually like to see a balanced budget amendment.-
Quote from DICOM_Dan
[i][b]We owe that money to someone and it needs paid if we want to keep our status in the world. [/b][/i]
Think about what the US pays just to service that debt. It’s an untenable situation.I’d actually like to see a balanced budget amendment.
Says who? It’s not as simple as you think, especially because of all the countries that are in far worse debt and situations, ironically utilizing policies you constantly encourage on these here boards.
By the way, I agree with you about the debt. I just find it funny that someone who constantly approves spending insane amounts of (future generations) money, talks about debt.
When you max your credit card bills out, you don’t go around claiming to other people that you have a “job problem” when you have a job, or a “revenue problem” because you buy all this extra shite. They’d look at you like you are crazy.
That’s what you do with the feds irresponsibility. It’s a mental sickness, of a variety. Not because you EVER had a deficit year. But because you keep cheering on insane spending and aren’t honest at all about it. We’ve been over the numbers, you aren’t interested in math, either.-
So youre anti-spending? Its only what keeps the economy going. DUH! Even you have to realize that.
But I expect too much of you.
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Quote from Frumious
So youre anti-spending? Its only what keeps the economy going. DUH! Even you have to realize that.
But I expect too much of you.
Spending can drive the economy but how do you get more $$$$ to the bottom? Some people have more money than can be spent in a thousand lifetimes, some people can’t afford to live.
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Quote from Frumious
So youre anti-spending? Its only what keeps the economy going. DUH! Even you have to realize that.
But I expect too much of you.
I’m still trying to find the one time you say an intelligent thing.
Previously to this you complained about debts, then you talk about how spending is necessary. Have you even thought about any of your positions? Wait … I know the answer. Don’t respond with post 1,200,234,200 telling me something else unintelligible.-
Ah, I see like McCain & Trump, I live rent free in your empty head.
BOO!
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Quote from dergon
As an immediate political matter however, it is likely to mean more and continuing bad press for the Trump/GOP tax plan and how returns are being trashed.
Mostly another example of biased reporting by a hostile press. A balanced report and article would have given numbers on how many see their tax load go down by the increased child tax credit and the changes in AMT.
The good news is that most of those 11 million are in states the president doesn’t need to pay much attention to for his reelection.
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I think you know… but I’ll clarify.
The complaint about using SALT as a revenue better is that it targets the resident of blue states. It has a political punishment angle in addition to the revenue.
In that regard many people view that as fundamentally unfair in comparison to other means of generating revenue in a progressive manner such as progressive income tax, increased capital gains etc.
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sounds like an issue with your state, not the federal government. the feds don’t determine your states tax rate
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It IS a problem when the Federal government targets a specific group of people to punish.
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Nothing in the law or code targets anyone.
You guys are telling “untruths” again … lol
Which means you’re losing, again.
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Quote from IR27
sounds like an issue with your state, not the federal government. the feds don’t determine your states tax rate
this is in fact the primo post to show just how dishonest, illogical, and politically tribal these guys are
checks all the boxes
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Agree. Some people find the concern[t of inequality too complex to understand.
3 Americans hold more personal wealth that fully 1/2 of America, the bottom half.
What’s wrong with that picture. Obviously half of Americans are lazy or dumb. Must be. Can’t think of any other reason.
How did we ever get this far with so many lazy dummies.-
The problem is when things like the 70% tax rate are set, they predominately affect the upper middle class, not the billionaires. Because the billionaires have the assets to pay someone to structure their stuff so they are exempt, but joe anesthesiologist really doesn’t.
I’m not totally against you guys on this issue. I think we could tax people with tens of millions+ more. Just the way you see liberals typically go about it is wrong, a la ocasio cortez.
Remove deductions, set rates that actually mean something.
We also need to cut spending. Liberals claim we need more tax revenue and need to spend more. Conservatives claim we need to spend less on certain stuff and spend more on other stuff and take in less tax revenue. Both are partly right and partly wrong.
We need more income and less expenditures. Period. The way to do that is to cut spending across the board ( no picking and choosing, defense, public works, IRS, etc you name it, all of it needs to have reduced money ) and then increase tax revenue. The way to increase revenue is to remove deductions and make it so people like Buffett can’t pay 15 % income tax.-
That’s brilliant, a cut across the board regardless of department and function.
Who could have ever guess that decision making running the country’s budget should be so easy. Thinking is so over-rated.
Uh, no. That’s a vey poor option.-
[b]Only 1 in 5 Americans expect to see savings from GOP tax plan [/b]
A new [link=https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-tax-survey/few-americans-see-savings-from-trumps-tax-reform-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKCN1QW1BY?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FPoliticsNews+%28Reuters+Politics+News%29]Reuters/Ipsos poll[/link] finds only 21% U.S. taxpayers expect to pay less income tax this year as a result of the tax reform law passed in 2017 by Republicans who promised big savings for everyday Americans.
Just prior to approval of the tax reform by Republicans, Trump said: This is going to be one of the great gifts to the middle-income people of this country that theyve ever gotten for Christmas.
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It’s one of the greatest grifts on the middle class. The budget is busted 6 ways to Sunday. Borrowing $ to make tax cuts doesn’t make sense to me. You’re slightly better off now but at what cost?
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Quote from DICOM_Dan
It’s one of the greatest grifts on the middle class. The budget is busted 6 ways to Sunday. Borrowing $ to make tax cuts doesn’t make sense to me. You’re slightly better off now but at what cost?
You are missing the point. During the Reagan administration Republicans realized cutting spending was a lot harder than they wanted to admit as even their own supporters (voters) would not support reductions or elimination of social spending like Social Security and Medicare, etc. So they changed their tactic by increasing spending and therefore the deficits and debt in order to “starve the beast” as is the popular phrase thinking that deficits would be used as the leverage to curtail social spending which has always been their real aim. So today, after decades of tax cuts and starving the beast into higher and higher deficits, the cry is that we can’t afford to spend on social issues. Military spending is always limitless in the long run, damn the deficits.
America, the “can’t do!” country. “We can’t afford that!”
They are only deficit hawks when there is a Democratic President like Clinton or Obama, otherwise it is as Cheney said, “Reagan proved deficits don’t matter!”
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Had my tax meeting with my accountant yesterday. I’m not a member of the 1%, but I am the 2% or so.
My income was up significantly over last year, but I asked him to run a best-guess apples-to-apples comparison. (I didn’t tell him that the entire purpose was simply to post it on Aunt Minnie 😉 )
Anyway:
When combining the $10,000 limit for SALT and the $24,000 for deductions I ended up owing about $19,000 more tax than previous.
But, when getting rid of the AMT and the top marginal rate I ended up paying about 29,000 less in taxes.
Overall, the tax cuts were about $10,000 in my favor.
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Interestingly, I get close to no refund. That means that the $10,000 was paid out to me over the course of the year in my paychecks. I did not notice a bump. Which makes me thing … If I didn’t notice $10k paid out over the course of the year in increments every 2 weeks, the average Joe probably isn’t noticing $500.
Had I been hit having to write a check or had I been expecting a large refund I could totally see how psychologically it would [b]feel[/b] like my taxes had gone up.
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“The reason you don’t see any gifts under the Yule tree is that you got your gifts all year long just broken up in 26 pieces.”
As Obama found out, any tax reduction distributed over the year in payday increments isn’t going to be realized by the voters unlike a single check.
Republicans crowed over that reality then and now are eating their own crow.
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Keep your government hands off my tax refund!
[link=https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/21/business/economy/tax-refund-republicans.html]https://www.nytimes.com/2…efund-republicans.html[/link]
Administration officials, it appears, underestimated Americans love of tax refunds.
[b]Nearly four in five people say they would rather overpay their federal income taxes and get a refund every spring effectively making an interest-free loan to the government than underpay and owe money come tax season, according to [link=https://www.surveymonkey.com/curiosity/consumer-confidence-report/]a poll[/link] for The New York Times by the online research firm SurveyMonkey. [/b]
That preference appears to be influencing how Americans view Mr. Trumps signature cuts: Among people who have already filed their tax returns, those who said they received a bigger refund this year are far more likely than others to approve of the law.
But many people are reporting that their tax refunds are smaller this tax season, or that they owe money.
The Treasury Department under-withheld taxes from millions of families paychecks to make the benefits of the tax law appear greater before the 2018 election, and the bill is now coming due, Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, the top Democrat on the Finance Committee, said in an emailed statement. Families who depend on annual tax refunds to pay down debt, cover medical expenses and afford car repairs are discovering their refunds are smaller or they owe money.
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Jamie Dimon reports that JPM has added $3.7b in profit from the tax cut. So they definitely notices a change.
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Fixing AMT saved me about 35K
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[h1]Few Americans (only 17%) Think Theyre Getting a Trump Tax Cut[/h1]
A new [link=https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/05/few-americans-think-theyre-getting-a-trump-tax-cut-nbcwsj-poll.html]NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll[/link] finds just 17% of Americans believe their taxes will go down as a result of President Trumps 2017 tax law. By contrast, 28% believe theyll pay more, 27% expect to pay about the same and 28% dont know enough to say.
That helps explain why the tax cut provided so little ballast for the GOP as Democrats recaptured control of the House in Novembers midterm elections. Pew Research polling last month found that the tax cut remains underwater politically, with 36% of Americans expressing approval and 49% disapproval.
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Americans are souring on tax cuts? OK, technically you got a tax cut but what if it’s so small you don’t hardly notice? And your tax refund is also much smaller or gone? So which is the reason your paycheck is a few dollars more? Your tax cut or your withholding was changed? Most people aren’t that anal about looking at a few dollars more per paycheck but do notice hundreds less in refunds.
[link=https://www.forbes.com/sites/teresaghilarducci/2019/04/09/five-good-reasons-it-doesnt-feel-like-the-trump-tax-cut-benefited-you/#5eda219213e0]https://www.forbes.com/si…ited-you/#5eda219213e0[/link]
As tax day approaches, American taxpayers will wonder if they benefited from the Trump tax cut. Most people dont think they did. Only [link=https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/05/few-americans-think-theyre-getting-a-trump-tax-cut-nbcwsj-poll.html]17% of Americans think the bill is reducing their taxes[/link], even though the nonpartisan [link=https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/distributional-analysis-conference-agreement-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act/full]Tax Policy Center[/link] estimated that up to 80% would see some reduction in their federal taxes. There are five reasons for this mismatch between reality and impressions.
First, many people will technically have lower taxes, but the cuts are so tiny as to be hardly noticeable. The Tax Policy Center estimates the 60% of Americans at the lower end of the income distribution will have federal tax savings of less than $1,000. Also, most people believe the tax cuts didnt benefit people like them but only the very wealthy. They are right. Those in the top 1% save $51,000.
Second, as [link=https://www.forbes.com/sites/howardgleckman/2019/02/12/its-about-your-tax-liability-not-your-refund/#23c148835292]Forbes contributor Howard Gleckman[/link] explained, the tax changes affected withholding through increases in the standard deduction and other provisions, especially the limit on deductibility of state and local taxes (SALT). But many taxpayers didnt change their withholding allowances, so they may not have withheld the correct amounts in each time period. This means their tax refund is smaller than expected. The smaller-than-expected refund could be feeding a perception that taxes have increased even when they fell slightly.
[size=”0″]Third, [/size][link=https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Fteresaghilarducci%2F2019%2F04%2F09%2Ffive-good-reasons-it-doesnt-feel-like-the-trump-tax-cut-benefited-you%2F&text=most%20Americans%20perceive%20the%20Trump%20tax%20cuts%20didn%27t%20benefit%20them%20because%20the%20highest%20income%20groups%20benefited%20the%20most]most Americans perceive the Trump tax cuts didn’t benefit them because the highest income groups benefited the most[/link][size=”0″] . This is not only because of the rate changes, but because the drop in corporate taxes and rise in corporate profits ended up as higher incomes for the wealthiest households. The biggest winners in the Trump tax cuts were corporations and the households that get income from corporate profitsthat is, the very wealthiest Americans.[/size]
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The new safe harbor tax laws makes owning real estate a little better.
Saved me some money there but most of my savings were from the AMT fix
Both of those however do nothing for middle income or working class people
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